Spider ID

[Stuart Baker]

She is definitely a she. I do still have the moult, but whether I can get a decent pic of the spemathecae is another matter. I'll give it a go, though. I'm pretty sure it's not A. genic. Chromatus x coloratovillosus would be my guess, at the moment. Could easily just be an atypical chromatus, though.

[lee beck]

Odd looking isn't it, the carapace colour can vary, it's just not a typical looking one if it's natural variation. it's got me thinking about maybe 3 times In the last year I've seen people posting pics of their mature male 'Acanthoscurria geniculata' when it was in fact 'Nhandu chromatus' , with the typical black carapace, making them appear very similar, but you can see differences in the white at the proximal end of the metatarsi, slim medial line in A. geniculata and a typically thicker, often arrowhead marking in N. chromatus. I don't know how genetically different they are, if the unthinkable was to happen, I know that one such chromatus pic I saw, the owner stated that it was an old pic, and he was sent off on a breeding loan to meet a nice lady geniculata and was unaware, and the guy with the female clearly was, or he would have said something. I'm not suggesting that's what's happened with yours, it just made me think.


You refer to it as 'she', confirmed female? Do you still have the moult? Pics of spermathecae would be a good start if so.

[Stuart Baker]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but she has now moulted. Any new ideas?

[Grant Brown]

Who said anything about killing the spider? could possibly work out if it is a hybrid from a moult?

I think I got this from the - "we could use the specimen in the museum" part. A bias here but when I think "I'd like it for the museum" this doesn't typically mean "alive".

In any case, my point was more about how this question doesn't really require an immediate answer, so there's no panic as such. If it's a hybrid it'll still be a hybrid in 2 years times, alive or dead and vice versa. As you point out, it would be interesting to document the development which you can't do from a dead spider.

[Ray Gabriel]

so any more opinions on the identity of this spider?

Well no long hairs on the carapce so very reduced chance it has Nhandu genes possibly indicating that it is just a colour variety.

Nice little project for someone would be to photograph each stage from sling to adult of all these black white and red species giving a possible photo id for each stage of development.........I dont have the time or the inclination to do this............so someone else can grab this if they desire......good article for the journal.

R

[Ray Gabriel]

You do realise that means she'll be drowned in ethanol, frozen or gassed right? I'm sure it's not going to kill anyone to wait for it to live out it's natural lifespan before it's pickled.

Seems ethically unjustifiable action in my opinion to kill the specimen simply for Ray to turn around and say it's either a hybrid or just a slightly weird coloured specimen. It's hardly time sensitive information if you get what I mean, the answer will be the same now or in a few years.

Who said anything about killing the spider? could possibly work out if it is a hybrid from a moult?

[Stuart Baker]

Sorry for the delay, I've been away for a couple of weeks. Some bad pics of the inverts of southern Spain to follow....

I've not had any further contact with Ray, so I don't know what his intentions are/were, and I certainly don't fell attacked. To be honest, I try to take a balanced view on the subject. I don't like the idea of killing animals for any purpose, but I eat meat, wear leather etc. I don't have any intrinsic objection to the death of a spider if advances scientific knowledge in some some small way.

Anyway, this isn't an ethics thread, so any more opinions on the identity of this spider?

[Grant Brown]

Just a tad harsh on Ray and Stuart there, no-one's talking about killing spiders. Ray is more than capable of providing a complete diagnosis from studying a live specimen. All that was suggested was that the spider would be looked after until it passed away from natural causes and then would be preserved. I'm sure Ray meant no harm.

It wasn't an attack on Ray, what I meant was the information gleaned would be very little in the grand scheme of things - it's either a hybrid or a slightly odd existing species.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun, but I didn't get the impression Ray was looking to take on a spider for the next x years until it died naturally. Maybe I got the message completely wrong.

I didn't mean it as an attack on anyone, although I am cautious as I've known researchers in the past who were fairly trigger happy when it came to euthanising specimens.

[NikiJoDolby]

Just a tad harsh on Ray and Stuart there, no-one's talking about killing spiders. Ray is more than capable of providing a complete diagnosis from studying a live specimen. All that was suggested was that the spider would be looked after until it passed away from natural causes and then would be preserved. I'm sure Ray meant no harm.

[Grant Brown]

Thanks for the info.
Ray, I will get some better pics, including carapace, over the weekend. I think I got her from Martin French, but I can't be 100% sure. I've had her a few years now. I don't have any old moults I'm afraid. If she is 'of interest', I'd be happy enough with a trade for something.

You do realise that means she'll be drowned in ethanol, frozen or gassed right? I'm sure it's not going to kill anyone to wait for it to live out it's natural lifespan before it's pickled.

Seems ethically unjustifiable action in my opinion to kill the specimen simply for Ray to turn around and say it's either a hybrid or just a slightly weird coloured specimen. It's hardly time sensitive information if you get what I mean, the answer will be the same now or in a few years.

[Stuart Baker]

Ok, I have some better photos. I can also email hi res ones to anyone who's interested.

[Stuart Baker]

Thanks for the info.
Ray, I will get some better pics, including carapace, over the weekend. I think I got her from Martin French, but I can't be 100% sure. I've had her a few years now. I don't have any old moults I'm afraid. If she is 'of interest', I'd be happy enough with a trade for something.

Niki, I was waiting for her to get her adult colours, but I really think that would've happened by now, if it was going to. Here's a pic of her with a pint glass for scale. She's a pretty big girl now.

[NikiJoDolby]

As people have said above. Sometimes tarantulas have odd little quirks from specimen to specimen, hence the abdominal hairs in this case aren't really red. It is a Nhandu coloratovillosus (or however you spell it) and a very pretty spider. wait for the next moult and then you might get the bright red abdominal hairs. Lovely spider!

[Ray Gabriel]

Just a secondary thought can you get a good close up pick of the carapace sideways on? if it has long hairs as found in Nhandu then a hybrid.

R

[Ray Gabriel]

Lower leg is chromatus patella is coloratovillosum could be a hybrid a possible result of bloody common names..........Brazilian black whiite and red. etc.........then again could just be a chromatus with lots more white in it a genetic colour variety, I would suggest if you can, say who you got it from and ask if anyone else has bought the same thing from that person and ask to see thiers if they all look the same then possibly hybrid if not then a weird colour form.

Do you have any of the old skins? or see what the next moult looks like.

If you are really after a chromatus I will try to get one at the BTS expo and exchange with you............if it is a hybrid then we would be happy to have it in the museum

Ray