under 16 year old buyers

[Ray Gabriel]

I have just had a phone call from a concerned reptile shop owner who also sells spiders. (Diane from Reptiles in the Green in Aberdeen)

She has recently refused a 12 year old (with a couple of months experiance with a B. vagans and A. versicolour slings), who now wanted to buy an H. lividum or "any aggressive spider".

When this 12 year old was refused he simply stated he would buy one on line.

Of course this leads to a few problems, in inexperianced "kid" thinking he has the experiance to look after "agressive spiders", but more importantly he can buy them on line.

I am under the impression that it is illegal to sell any animal to someone under 16 without parental consent, but how can you find out if someone has thier parents consent online? the first time you might realise you have just sold to a "minor" is when the cheque arrives with thier parents name on it. But does this confirm they have thier parents consent or was the check thier parents just wrote supposed to go for a computer game or something else?

Do any of the dealers who use the BTS site have any checks in place that the people they are selling to are over 16 or do have thier parents consent? (for thier own safety)

If the worst should happen and some kid gets bitten not only might the dealer get into trouble/prosecuted for selling a live animal to a minor, but the BTS (or any other website which hosts adverts) might also be brought into this as being the place who allowed the advertisment in the first place.

Any thoughts or ideas as to how dealers can be made more secure with thier online sales?

Just some thoughts

Ray

[Adam Smith]

I usually buy my Ts online these days and most say customers must be 18 or over or have consent from parents. If the parents are paying has to be throgh card which the child wouldnt have access to. The cheque is a tricky part. Im sure that all online stores have thought this and have some ideas on what to do. Most sites must register putting in name, address, date of birth so if the customer is under certain age id presume the parents would have to fill their part in. Find out with www.thespidershop.co.uk

[Stewart Macgregor]

I ordered off www.thespidershop.co.uk when I was still 17, but I used my Solo card, which you only get when you turn 16. So I think there's not really a risk of under 16's being able to buy online unless they nick their parents' card.

I think sites with an "over 18" policy can't really do a lot to enforce purchases made by people who are 16 and 17 because people of those ages still have debit cards which the site accepts. At the same time I also think that purchases by 16 and 17 year olds aren't really that big an issue compared to a twelve year old wanting an H. lividum. It is the under 16's which the dealers should focus on as the "no sale" group and I think they do this perfectly by using debit/credit card payments which kids don't have access to.

I don't feel its the responsibility of the dealer if some kid has conned Mommy or Daddy out of their money either by using their credit card fraudulently online or by lying to them about where a cheque is going.

Would HMV have any responsibility if little Jimmy's parents gave him £20 to go and get groceries and he spent it on a video game? I doubt Jimmy's mom would storm into the shop and have a go at the manager.

At the end of the day online dealers are running a business, and I think they're doing as much as is reasonable to expect from them.

Stewart

[Adam Smith]

Exactly my friend, for a 16 17 year old is ok (providing the parents are cool with the new house members) if they are old enough to have bank cards and accounts. However, I think that a 12 year ols is too young anyway, having a pet tarantula with paretnal supervsiion is ok but if I owned a pet shop which hope to one day would certainly not sell a T to a child without parents present

[Ian Metcalfe]

Thats food for thought Ray, I have not personally but I bet there are quite a lot who have taken postal orders as payment in the past no age limmits on who can get those.

[Niklas Eriksson]

12 years old is a bit to young IMO but I cant see why a 15year old cant buy a t? I mean if you sell a 15 year old a nigriventer its something completly diffrent than if you sell him/her a rosea..

Just my opinion!

[Stewart Macgregor]

Yes but in that situation where would you draw the line and how? The difference between a G. rosea and something like an H. lividum or P. murinus is immense if you're a relative newbie to the hobby. If you sell a kid one species of T, then surely you should sell him another? I think having a "G. rosea only" rule for dealers would be impractical and a waste of time.

To be honest I think the dealers have the right idea with no sales at all to under 16s. If an under 16 wants a tarantula then they can just get their parents to order it, and if mommy or daddy is ok with that then great. If the parents don't give consent then that's just tough for the kid, he's gonna have to wait till he has his own home!

Stewart

[Daniel Carpenter]

I'am 14 and have a number of tarantulas my self all ones that have come from the same shop. Every time my mum or dad have been there, and are fine with me owning them. I do however fully support the that there should be a age (16) that you can not buy intil unless a perant or gardian is with that child, for the tarantulas sake as much as the childs.

[AndyM]

hello,

Just one thing for you information. There are currently no restrictions on selling animals to under 16,s. However, if the AWB gets past i think the legal age will become 16.

regards,

Andy.

[clarkemcrobb]

Hi folks im new to the board!
I think 16 is a good age.
but making it that you have to buy online with a credit card or cheque is a bit silly, considering only an 18+ can have them (apart from solo/ visa electron debit cards)
Im 16, yet I live in my own house with two housemates, and I have an almost full time job aswell as my final year of academy. Can you imagine how offended I would be if someone questioned how responsible I am?

FYI im clarke, come from aberdeen and I have a G.Rosea and an L.Parahybana, also a leo gecko and a golden gecko.

[bobgepstein]

It's a good question - the legal implications aside I used to have a spider when I was in primary school (red rump and yes with my parents consent) and to me it's more the maturity of the child than their age.

The asking for an aggressive spider rather than a specific species by name (which may be aggressive) implies a level of imaturity not suited for such animals.

I'm older now.. and have a couple of spiderlings. Check out their new house!

Chilean Rose spiderling in it's new house
http://www.mbldezine.com/chileanspiderling/

Bob.

[Kristine]

While my daughter is fascinated by my G. Rosea and was actually the one who picked her (at the age of 3) I would NEVER under any circumstance let her own a T until she was at least 16...

I live in Aberdeen and buy my T supplies from "reptiles in the Green"... Next time I'm in I am gonna have to congratulate the owner...

There are too many irresponsible animal retailers out there ( there is a pet store in Aberdeen who do sell T's but the owner doesn't know the first thing about them... He puts cotton wool in the water bowl...)

Rant over though...

I would give my backing to a minimum age of 16..

Krissie

[clarkemcrobb]

Yup I know exactly which pet shop you mean. I have been getting lizards from there for years until recently when I realised how little the guy actually knows. His animals never look too great, and im always tempted to buy them and plump them up, but, I know that if I do, thats just more money in his pocket to bring in more of these poor little spiders.

[Brian Kurbiuhn]

Age is one consideration, but how about experience?

Should a person with no previous experience be able to purchase an "agressive" or "hot" species as thier first "T" if they are over 18? just because they seen a photo and like the colours.

Pokies are the main concern, should one not slowly increase thier skill level before being allowed to obtain one of these.

I am new to this site, but have several years in the hobby, I recently aquired a P. murins sling as a stepping stone, on my way to obtaining a pokie, however that is still years away.

[Ray Hale]

It is very difficult to police the trade. The BTS Exhibition has a strict policy of no traders selling to under 16's. We do not allow unaccompanied children into the exhibition. There are those shops that will still sell to children but to enforce any rule would be difficult. I agree that we should encourage sensible selling and I know the vast majority of dealers exercise self control.

Any transgression of our rules at our exhibition will result in removal and banning from future events.