Spider Surgery.

[Phil Rea]

Phil, It may not seem like a good idea but hey it works! I think the problem with melting a pot of vaseline is that it you have to apply a lot of heat to get a full tub to melt, once you have acheived this then the vaseline may be too hot and have the adverse effect of burning your spider. By gently applying just a small amount of heat from a lighter it is easy to control the amount of liquification occuring and control the amount of vaseline, remember we are looking for a very small drip here and not a melting pot. The small drip coveres the small wound and then quickly solidifies. It's almost like when you drip a candle onto a cold surface, as soon as the wax touches it cools and hardens. I can see your point about applying a lighter to petrolium jelly, however you would have to apply a significant amount of heat to the jelly solution to get the petrolium compounds to flash burn. In fairness it is petrolium vapour that ignites anyway as it mixes with air and not liquid petrolium. Under laborotory conditions I have witnessed lit matches being extinguished in liquid petrolium providing the match is quickly placed into the petrolium. It is the evaporating petrolium gas that ignites over a receptical of petrol when petrol sets fire and not the liquid petrolium directly. In this circumstance I think the method is safe and presents less danger than a tub of hot and sticky melted vaseline potentially could.

There are a number of books that contain references for cooling a spider that is hard to handle. The same principle works in this case as again we are looking to subdue a spider long enough to quickly apply a seal. Cooling it works, keeps it still and allows the vaseline to quickly cool and harden. Especially if the wound is on the underside of a spider. I am not advocating Cryogenics, just a gentle cooling!

I hope you don't ever need the "Clegg Technique" to save a spider, however there are alot of keepers out there for whom this information will help. The idea works and I think could save spider lives. Let's face it this is probably intended as a last case solution before terminating your spider anyway. You may not consider it yourself, but I am sure others will.

At the end of the day I am having a laugh with the "Clegg Technique" name, but I am serious about the practice. It does work and I am sure that in the future other people will adopt it rather than loose a spider. As with everything though it will come down to choice, whether an individual advocates it or not is irrelevent, I think knowledge shared is always the best type of knowledge. That is all I am trying to acheive here. If it helps someone save their spider great, and if nobody ever even considers it, then that's fine too.

I'm not implying that the vaseline is going to go up like napalm , and I was trying to suggest that bearing in mind you are trying to seal a small wound, then a little vaseline could be melted in the way I suggested, not a whole pot!

I didn't think you were advocating cryogenics either, and I'm well aware that cooling a spider is mentioned in many books. As MarkP pointed out in his earlier post though, a spider is essentially hydraulic, and a drop in hemolymph pressure can be fatal, but as you say, if the spider is dying anyway, then what have you got to lose.

I'm not entirely convinced that melting the petroleum jelly is more effective than smearing it on the wound, or using superglue, or any of the other methods I've read about, and if the spider is immobile, then you don't need to drip it onto the wound. Why not apply it directly with the cotton bud?

I'm not knocking your technique even if it sounds as if I am, and if it works as well as you say it does then that's fantastic. Any spider saved is a win in my book. Discussion is healthy though.

Also if you re-read my earlier post, what I said was that I wouldn't consider melting vaseline with a lighter, not that I wouldn't consider using your technique

You are also mistaken if you think vaseline is used in boxing to stem blood flow. When a boxer is cut, the 'cut man' applies a swab soaked in adrenaline hydrochloride (an epinephrine solution, or a proprietry coagulant) directly to the cut. This constricts the blood vessels, and is what actually reduces or stops the bleeding. Vaseline is applied afterwards so that the opponent's gloves slip on the skin rather than tear or snag it and reopen or worsen the cut.

I agree entirely with you that sharing information is essential. How else can we learn from each other?

[J M Clegg]

Larry, read every book you can, look at every web site but most of all watch your spiders growing up from small slings. It's very rewarding. You should take on board all the information you can read, and then apply this to your own situation and set of circumstances. Experiencing things first hand is always more beneficial than reading about it, but reading about it will often help you make a more informed decision about what to do next.

You will quickly find that there are many "experts" when it comes to Tarantulas. Just because someone has read every book going and kept spiders for many years, doesn't make them an expert, they have just gathered more information from their experience! That's what causes the contradiction in books, one person thinks one thing and another person thinks something else. Sadly there is no definitive right and wrong.

One thing that I always applaud the BTS membership on, is the willingness to share knowledge. But don't take it as gospel, what works for one may not work for another. You can see this already in the difference of opinion expressed by Phil. What works for me may not work for Phil, and vice versa. There is no ill feeling in this, it’s all about how you apply knowledge to any given situation. In the end you will learn more from your own spiders simply by watching them. I would personally never profess myself to be an Arachnid expert. But if I can bring just a little bit of something to the pot for everyone else to consider as an option, then I consider my contribution to the BTS worthwhile. This and every other finding surrounding the collective Arachnid experience has to be beneficial to the community as a whole. For me personally this is the most important aspect of the BTS.

I think both you and Simon are both going in the right direction, you ask lots of questions and look for lots of answers, in the end though you have to formulate your own opinions and you will ultimately get this from your direct experiences.

Best regards,
Jay.

[J M Clegg]

Hi Phil, please don't take my response the wrong way. I was not responding in a negative manner and did not take your comments as such. The problem with a forum is that things can be constude in a different manner, and with respect mine were intended with a smile!

[Larry Shone]

Thanks Jay. The thing with Ts(and true spiders) is theyre all different!
Ive noticed already how my White knee differs from my Chile rose.
The chile rose is always out and about, and its behaviour changes from one minute to the next! The white knee on the other hand seems to hide during the day and come out when its dark. Could that just be a settling in thing, as its a new sling? They are definitely interesting things to watch! Glad I got slings too rather than adults!

[Phil Rea]

Yea good poiunt but im fairly new to the hobby, and my library only has one book on Ts(Marhsall)
What other books are out there?
But then i thought the Schulz book was 'The Bible', the definitive guide, written by experts!
And if you read lots of books dont you end up with lots of conflicting info? Its a toughie.

The Marshall book is a good one. It's more concise and to the point than the Schultz' book. Keeping and Breeding Tarantulas by Ronald N Baxter is also an excellent book.

Larry, read every book you can, look at every web site but most of all watch your spiders growing up from small slings. It's very rewarding. You should take on board all the information you can read, and then apply this to your own situation and set of circumstances. Experiencing things first hand is always more beneficial than reading about it, but reading about it will often help you make a more informed decision about what to do next.

That's excellent advice

Keep an open mind, don't be afraid to ask about something if you're not sure, take on board advice given by experienced hobbyists, scientists, and breeders, because you can be sure that if you encounter something, then someone will have been there before and will know what to do, absorb as much information as you can, and never stop learning.

The great thing about this hobby is that there is so much information, help and advice, all freely given.

Hi Phil, please don't take my response the wrong way. I was not responding in a negative manner and did not take your comments as such. The problem with a forum is that things can be constude in a different manner, and with respect mine were intended with a smile!

I never thought you were responding negatively, and your comments were taken in the manner you intended

Please bear in mind that my comments are not meant as criticisms either, and are posted with all due respect.

[Larry Shone]

Keeping and Breeding Tarantulas by Ronald N Baxter is also an excellent book.
.

Thanks Phil, will make a note of that one. I'd love a book that has all the major Ts listed, with pics, and possiby a guide to them as wild Tarantulas,kinda like a Collins guide but for Ts and other spiders.

[Phil Rea]

Thanks Phil, will make a note of that one. I'd love a book that has all the major Ts listed, with pics, and possiby a guide to them as wild Tarantulas,kinda like a Collins guide but for Ts and other spiders.

You'll be lucky Larry!

The three books by Andrew Smith, the BTS Chairman, all now sadly out of print are excellent guides. Look out for his new Poecilotheria book apparently due out next year (if you can lift it that is, as it's reputedly likely to be a weighty tome ).

[Larry Shone]

You'll be lucky Larry!

Look out for his new Poecilotheria book apparently due out next year (if you can lift it that is, as it's reputedly likely to be a weighty tome ).

Sounds like it'll be an expensive book, need to win the lottery,lol