considering purchasing my first T

[Andrew Young]

Hi all I have previously kept african cichlid fish but im now thinking of keeping some spiders. I know T's are territorial but of what size is there territory i have a space of 78"x30"x44" (lxbxh) this will be used for their housing i really want them to grow as wild as pos and will have at least 1 live tree in the setup lighting for the tree will be a 200w ecolight which gives off around 18000lumens and practicaly no heat. could i keep more than 1 spider in this area also would it be poss to keep crickets in this area to live wild amongst the spiders, i will also be running an extraction fan prob bout 4"dia with a double sized inlet this will give me good control over temps and humidity whilst also providing a continuous supply of fresh air. Any of your thoughts and avice is greatly appreciated. i have many more questions but will keep it short for mo.

Thanks, Andy

[Simon Batten]

spiders need a surprisingly small space the general rule is 3x there leg span to either side of them a happy tarantula wont move much at all.

As for keeping them together the only tarantulas that i can think of off the top of my head are species of avics these are aboreal tarantulas meaning they climb and live off the ground they can be kept together in a big enough tank but theres still a possibility they may kill each other.

You could keep crickets in with them but something I heard on here the other day is black crickets can be carniverous and may attack the tarantula if they greatly out number it so brown crickets would be the best, also a when a tarantula sheds it is very delicate and a cricket could kill it so you would need to remove all crickets when they started to moult which could be quite a job.

[Adam Smith]

So you want to try to set up a captive community. It is known in the wild to have numerous tarantulas just metres of even inches away from each others burrows and never come across each others paths. I have thought about doing this experiment in the future when my breeding is successful and take a handful of spiderlings and palce them in tank of some kind and see what happens if the given floor space is adequate enough for each to have its own territory or burrow and that each gets fed so there isnt as much competitions. Its a very interesting idea you have whatever you do you should document, record all the information as it progresses and have it published as an article for the journal it will certainly spark some thought provoking discussions. Good start to a thread, I like the idea myself, like I said I want to try something similar but with slings to see them grow and how it unfolds rather than have a number of adults placed in. Although at that size of a vivarium its be unlikely they every come across each other in rare occasions. This would make a great set up for communal arboeals which are known to tollerate and ive amongst. SO if anything a huge colony of various poecilotheria or avics would be interesting

[Adam Smith]

As simon mentioned about removing the crickets when a t or t's are shedding will be a long and needful pedantic job with an enclosure that size.

[Andrew Young]

hi simon and adam thanks for the quick response and positive comments. I really would prefer to put in slings as this way they get the chance to adapt to the surrounding at the very first stage and not shocked into it after growing in a small enviroment with no other spiders. I may also keep crickets to controled number as I wouldnt like to think a T died as result of a cricket numbers when feeding i'd imagine when poecilotheria or avics have settled and made their homes in higher levels then it may be possible to introduce a couple of burrowers as long as all the others have settled in off the ground i respect that spiders do have a mind of there own asn u never know maybe a poecilotheria may prefer to burrow thus eliminating the second option. i will spend a good bit of time setting up the vivarium choosing plants features etc to try and make the most out of the space with plenty of nice hidey holes. I,d really like to undertake an indepth study to there behaviour in the most natural enviroment i can provide over their lifespan see if there is dif behavioural changes at certain ages whether this stays common with dif species or differs from each. It really will be like having a dif world to explore and enjoy. this is a project that really excites me and is open to others to send advice thoughts, ideas, suggest a spider etc. all will be taken on board so hopefully it wont just be my own project but a project for a variety of ppl to contribute to so hopefully with my fascination of spiders and the experiance of others this can be a success may be a bit slow to start with as its just ideas running round my head but once it gets started im sure it will take off, first thing to find a supplier of perspex for the front viewing window. A definate inclusing is going to be avicularia avicularia pink toe as they are just beutifull thanks again for both ur advise i now realy believe this can happen . I,m also learning photography so should be able to keep up a very detailed diary. Thanks again for your positive words.

cheers

[Adam Smith]

only thing with arboreals and burrowers is they dont seem to stick to what the books say, its not uncommon to find a borrowing climbing a fair height and at the same time pokies are known and have seen them to burrow just under the log or bark with more web than digging. In all ts certainly have a mind of their own and will be interesting. However im sure it will create much interesting debaste you only have to look at the 2 ebay threads to see the different opinions

[mischaaussems]

hey Andrew. I'm new to this forum but I'm an active member of the dutch tarantula forum. I know people keeping holothele incei's as a group, but from the same nest. Untill now the spiders seem to live together very well, but canibalism is always a risk.I've never heard of people keeping more than one species together in one tank, but you can always try and keep us posted.

[Neil Richardson]

Have you considered setting the tank up as a Paludarium. That is, a tank that is half aquatic, and half terrestrial. I've seen pictures of one on another forum ( link ) and you can get some interesting interactions between the species then.

As far as the problems with crickets and moulting spiders is concerned, you could consider using a feeder cockroach instead. I've found they are safe to leave in a tank with a moulting spider, as they seem to have no interest in attacking it.

[lee smith]

one good thing to feed arboreals on are locusts as they climb well and are totally Vegitarian, so there will be no risk to the T's.

it was me who said that the black crickets are very carnivorus, i learnt the hard way in my toad tank, the black crickets killed and ate all the brown crickets, locusts and even attked my toad.

so i would advise trying them on locusts as there will be less risk to your new T's

[Simon Batten]

sorry Lee I couldnt remember who said it, I will be intrested to see what happens with this idea keep us posted

[Andrew Young]

hi the paludarium looks like a very interesting(i may have a spare tank 4ft though) idea and locusts will be cool ive been doin some reading considering the arboureals i have never really checked them out before, they do seem to build rather large webs so i'm thinking by the looks of it to the space i have maybe 4 would settle comfortable at max. Unfortunately I wont be able to buy the perspex sheet for the front for a fair few weeks yet. I am considering purchasing a mexican red knee sling for a pet shortly i think this will give me a hands on idea of how the slings may react when first put into the enclosure i know a mexican red knee is not arboureals but from what ive read the slings of both terrestrial and arboureal behave very similar for the first few months. the mexican red knee may never be introduced to this enviroment as she will be kept more like a pet. I was also wondering how common is it to get an infestation of mites and do they arrive as passengers with a bought T or food or do they need to get into the area via your house(i also grow some indoor plants mites could be bad news). Also where do u buy locusts, cockroach's etc and can u feed the slings anythin other than pinhead crickets or is this the only option, I'm thinking of ordering the adult tarantula kit from the spider shop this seems a good deal to me but do any of you know of cheaper better setups.

THANKS

[Larry Shone]

lighting for the tree will be a 200w ecolight which gives off around 18000lumens and practicaly no heat. .

The one point that struck me was the mention of the light. Ts and other spiders generally dont need it and may even go out of there way to avoid light.
Not had Ts for long but have studied spiders for a while and I have noticed with my Ts(and other psiders) that they tend to hide during the day and come out at night, when its dark.
I could be wrong but I have read in several boooks/websites that having a bright light in with them may affect their beahviour,unless you have a proper day/night cycle.

[Adam Smith]

alternatively if you want lights to be able to see them and looks more aesthetically pleasing the best thing to do would be to use coloured light bulbs, either red or blue as tarantulas will not notice this.

[Andrew Young]

hi the reason for the light is that if i decide to use real plants bamboo for example these do need the light and it would be set on a timer for day and night with say 16hours light 8 dark in summer then 10/14 in winter, I may not go with this but i like the idea of having live plants. the light is a red spectrum and imitates sunlight. i would like to use a red coloured light for viewing at night but as i said it is all ideas at the moment and the finished article may be far from this, thanks for your input.
Andy

[Adam Smith]

makes a fair point if you have light for plant growth to coincide with the natural solar cycle then it would work as it gets dark the taranutlas would emerge when dark so in a way is creating its natural environment so its a good idea.