Bentonite?

[Warren Beattie]

This is mentioned in Manny Rubio's Scorpions book: an aluminium silicate used as a binder in sculpting clay and for shaping pond bottoms, among other uses that google turns up. The book recommends a very small proportion as a desert substrate binder to help burrows remain stable.
I've thought about it for a while, but without any burrowing desert arachnids I didn't see much point. Now I've a couple of Bothriurus coriaceus coming from the Spider Shop; and although I'm going to try them on soaked, compacted and dried coir, they got me thinking more about using bentonite. But before I shell out for some I thought I'd better ask around for other opinions and experiences.

[Warren Beattie]

I guess no-one has any grave misgivings, then...

I noticed something in a pet shop today, which might be a cheaper and more readily available option: Chinchilla bathing dust, AKA sepiolite. This one's a magnesium silicate, and seems to have similar moisture-absorbing and binding properties.
It's also used as pet litter and even an animal feed additive, and seems to be no more potentially harmful than bentonite. I might give it a try. Sounds like an excuse to buy a few more desert arachnids...

I'd ask, but I have a feeling I won't get many arachnid-keepers' opinions on this, either. Unless they keep cats or chinchillas too.

[Ray Hale]

Hi Warren, dont be discouraged.

On a personal note the scorps that I have kept in the past, both desert and forest have faired pretty well on their own. I use my normal substrate mix and bury a flat rock or piece of bark about two thirds down. I then make a small depression at one side and let the scorpion do the rest. I wouldnt use what you are thinking about not becuase it may harm your animal but in the wild the scorpion does not have such a luxury. Spiders and scorpions were burrowing long before manking made an appearance and will still be doing it after we have gone. Never the less I would be interested in your results. What about an article for the Journal. Good luck.

Ray

[Warren Beattie]

Don't worry about discouragement! I figured not many would know/be bothered about this, for good reason.

I understand what you're saying about the wild, but my train of thought was to get the substrate a little closer to sturdier soils in the wild. ELC play sand is loose stuff.
Though despite that, and despite blathering on as if I know what I'm talking about, I'm still not convinced myself. Mostly because of what you, I, and most others here know - the 'good reason' - that normal substrate mixes are fine for burrowing. If it ain't broke...
Still, like you say, it would be interesting to see if and how it works.

[joost]

I considered using bentonite for my scorpio maurus, because of the loose sand, but decided to mix some soked coco fiber in to the sand instead and let this dry out. Also mixed in some fine aquarium gravel. this seems to give the sand engough structure. The have dug them selves quiet extensive burrows and seem to do fine.
The species your talking about i just keep on the same subsctrate i keep my spiders on and again they are able to burrow. And seem to do alright (have only had them for 3months or something.)

[Glenn Wilkinson]

I used a couple of teaspoons of Plaster of Paris mixed into the sand in the enclosure i made for my H. arizonensis. I then soaked it, compacted the sand and allowed it to thoroughly dry out. Its not enough to make the sand solid but it helps maintain the burrows. I have moved the enclosure between houses and the burrows stayed intact so it gets my vote.

[Warren Beattie]

Joost: thanks. I have a little sand mixed in with the coir - I've found it works well for my tarantulas. My biggest problem so far is that the substrate, soaked & compacted last week, doesn't want to dry - let alone dry out - despite drainage holes, heatmats, and airing cupboards. And the scorpions arrived today!* Time to set the oven at a low peep, maybe.

Glenn: more thanks! That's something I already have about the house. I take it you didn't have many problems with it. Can I ask what the general ratio of sand : plaster is?

*Big thanks to Lee, by the way.

[Glenn Wilkinson]

I take it you didn't have many problems with it. Can I ask what the general ratio of sand : plaster is?

I used about 4 or 5 heaped teaspoons of plaster of paris in my setup. Its 18x12 inches and about 4 or 5 inches deep in sand so you don't really need much. You just want enough to add some stability, if you end up with a brick then you used too much

[Brian Sherrill]

Folks, use that stuff (BENTONITE) sparringly because if you dont you will end up with a brick like I did the first time I used it. I had to experiment several times before I got a good ratio to work with. That stuff is like Ex Lax in that a little goes a looooooong way LOLOL

[Warren Beattie]

Gotcha. The books suggests using very little too, so no worries there.

[Brian Sherrill]

On a side note. If you all in the UK can get Repti Sand it will work well. Just wet it and let dry. It will hold up a burrow pretty well IMO

[Warren Beattie]

Quick question for Glenn and Brian: did you ever wet the substrate again, in any way? E.g. misting or some kind of light humidity gradient? If so, how did the substrate behave? Any problems with the scorps?

[Glenn Wilkinson]

Quick question for Glenn and Brian: did you ever wet the substrate again, in any way? E.g. misting or some kind of light humidity gradient? If so, how did the substrate behave? Any problems with the scorps?

I don't mist my H. arizonensis but i do provide a water dish which is filled once a week and occasionally overflows. I haven't had any problems with either substrate or scorpion after it gets wet again.