T's on Youtube?

[Robert Farmer]

Agreed but some people just get a kick out of handling somthing that could kill then stupid i know ...Also they like to say they have .... But if you play with fire one day you'll get burnt....
Dan.

I think more than anything he's trying in some backhand way to remove all the negativity surrounding arachnids in general, I mean no animal will bite for the sake of it, there's got to be something that drives that instinct.

If he's got a Black Widow running over his hand as long as it's not provoked on said hand I imagine the chances of getting bitten are reasonably low.

Can't say I'd do it myself, but different strokes eh?

On a similar note my friend has no qualms about picking up his adult fem C Gracile (Israeli Desert) and letting it run amok over his hand...

I'm sure that guy with the Widow also handles a rather nasty centipede also if I'm not mistaken.

[Daniel Carpenter]

Yer ...thats a fair piont Robert i dont think the media does spiders much good at all ....when i say to people that there has been no human death by a tarantula bite they dont belive me .... 'there was in that film' they say.
Dan.

[J M Clegg]

Wow – what an excellent thread, well done Glen!

OK – my Two’penneth!

I saw an interesting article on the BTS web site and about a colony of “Giant” spiders that live together in terrestrial colonies. I can’t remember the exact detail but it was fascinating. In the “nest” rat skulls were found. In the wild a small rodent is very much on the menu of a large terrestrial spider. One mouse can sustain a spider for months. Spiders are opportunist feeders who will grab at anything when they are suitably hungry and the moving target represents pray. The “moral” ground argument against feeding a mouse to a spider (in my humble opinion) is completely irrelevant. Everything on this planet is prey for another creature. The only reason we are the land dwelling apex predator is because we have learned to farm our prey. Put us in the savanna with a hungry pride of Lions and we will quickly become the prey.

For some stupid reason in the UK – we are not legally allowed to feed a live invertebrate to another creature. Yet, it is OK to grow an ear on the back of a mouse, or farm pigs for heart valve research. Rodents make up a significant part of our wild animal heritage and are abundant. The argument against live feeding rests on the fact that they (rodents) suffer at the hands (or rather fangs) of their particular predator. It’s a well known fact that Tarantula venom is designed to work on insects and other inverts. It is less effective in warm blooded animals such as small rodents. It also one of the main facts of why Tarantula bites vary rarely result in fatalities. However the speed of the bite and the venom injected into a rodent does quickly subdue it. How many orb weaver spiders kill their prey immediately? It’s rare to see, they bite, paralyze and store their prey for when they are hungry. Whether a cricket, cockroach or a mouse – it’s just another example of nature at work. On my travels (in Europe) I have witnessed a large captive Aphonopelma Chacona take a mouse. The speed of the strike was blinding, with 1 fang going through the base of the skull and the other going through the neck. The fang penetration alone instantly killed the mouse. There wasn’t as much as a twitch from it. I have seen my own spiders still carrying round kicking cockroaches 10 to 15 minutes after first biting them. So in the case of the mouse, where was the suffering that prevents us legally feeding a spider (or snake) a natural food source?

I agree totally with the opinion that the risk to a spider is high – 100%. No argument there. I wouldn’t ever suggest that the responsible spider keepers of the BTS feed their spiders on live mice, not only because it is illegal. In a small tank where a spider has limited room to escape if things go wrong - the risk is too great. However – there is another side to this argument also. I lost a juvenile Haplopelma Longpipes to a black cricket that I had missed in the tank. The spider moulted over night and during it’s molt the cricket ate half of it. I thought I had cleared the tank – but clearly I had a missed one. In the end the risk to the spider was just the same as feeding a mouse – except I wasn’t looking for it.

In the end common sense must prevail. Lets not get on the moral high horse here. Small rodents are a natural food source for a wild tarantula. Apart from the law, the only real reason we don’t do it is because we value our often expensive Tarantulas.

[Simon Batten]

I read somewhere the other day that there is actually no law against live feeding prey to reptiles but its just frowned upon I dont know if this is the same for inverts though

[Simon Batten]

I just came across this on the government website

"The issue we have is on the welfare Clause, Clause 3(4)(c), the need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns. That is really where part of this is coming from. The feeding of live prey to reptiles is extremely rare. Ten years ago it used to be common practice. In many parts of the world, Europe, Holland, France and Germany, it is still the most common way of feeding. We do not enter into that practice here. 99.8% of what we feed will be pre killed, frozen rodents. On occasion, particularly if we are bringing in new species of snakes or whatever, you may have a specimen which is a reluctant feeder and in those circumstances it may be appropriate to feed a live vertebrate to that animal under controlled conditions. Currently under the 1911 Act it is not illegal to feed a live vertebrate to another unless you cause it unnecessary suffering, so that would have to be the result of a court case and the judge would have to make a decision. Those of us who have been involved with reptiles will argue that a mouse that is being produced for food really has no cognizance of what is going on and exhibits no fear. Whilst we absolutely do not want to encourage live feeding, we think we need some clarity as to whether that is going to be made illegal under this clause of fighting. Our concerns are, because of Clause 3(iv)(c), the need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns, that snakes in the wild feed on life prey, there are no carrion feeding snakes, so that would mean we are not going to be able to feed them frozen food; we are going to have to feed them live mice, and equally we would be opposed to having to introduce that. The other issue we have is with breeding. Certain species of reptiles, iguanas would be a good example, engage in quite robust mating activity, and I am afraid the lady tends to suffer quite badly on occasions, but that is a natural process and if people are going to breed these animals that will happen, so we need to make certain that is not caught up in fighting, and you are not going to introduce iguanas together for any kind of sport if you are going to breed them. You may see them exhibit some kind of aggressive behaviour towards each other if the male is meeting the female, and that is quite common in quite a number of lizard species"

[J M Clegg]

Well done Simon - thats an excellent piece of research. Could you possibly add the link of the URL that you found this information on?

Actually - looking at what has been written, how long before some idiot goodytwoshoes numpty decides breeding Tarantulas is a cruel act as their is a possibility of the male getting eaten alive???? I dread to think..........................

[rhys brigida]

entertaining

Youtube may not have much to teach us about tarantulas, but here's something that will brighten your day:

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ABK8XOPiYuI[/ame]


The computer animation is superb. The spider character's face is the funniest thing I've seen in a long, time.

[Colin D Wilson]

Actually - looking at what has been written, how long before some idiot goodytwoshoes numpty decides breeding Tarantulas is a cruel act as their is a possibility of the male getting eaten alive???? I dread to think..........................

You beat me to it Sir

[Colin D Wilson]

Rhys....

excellent !!!!

[Daniel Carpenter]

I loved the video Rhys amazing animation, Thank you for that.
Dan.

[Neil Ashby]

Yeah , i enjoyed that too !

[rhys brigida]

I loved the video Rhys amazing animation, Thank you for that.
Dan.

Your very welcome. There's a couple dozen or more like it out there. Do a keyword search on the word "minuscule" on youtube. Laugh till it hurts. The yellow spider is featured in several, particularly one called 'the picnic'. He's kind of a "wiley coyote" character, always trying to catch a bug for dinner, but never getting it right.

The wife and I have been laughing at them all weekend!

[Robin Johannessen]

The argument against live feeding rests on the fact that they (rodents) suffer at the hands (or rather fangs) of their particular predator. It’s a well known fact that Tarantula venom is designed to work on insects and other inverts. It is less effective in warm blooded animals such as small rodents. It also one of the main facts of why Tarantula bites vary rarely result in fatalities. However the speed of the bite and the venom injected into a rodent does quickly subdue it. How many orb weaver spiders kill their prey immediately? It’s rare to see, they bite, paralyze and store their prey for when they are hungry. Whether a cricket, cockroach or a mouse – it’s just another example of nature at work. On my travels (in Europe) I have witnessed a large captive Aphonopelma Chacona take a mouse. The speed of the strike was blinding, with 1 fang going through the base of the skull and the other going through the neck. The fang penetration alone instantly killed the mouse. There wasn’t as much as a twitch from it. I have seen my own spiders still carrying round kicking cockroaches 10 to 15 minutes after first biting them. So in the case of the mouse, where was the suffering that prevents us legally feeding a spider (or snake) a natural food source?

Hello!
I enjoyed reading your reply, but I don`t agree with everything

The Aphonopelma Chacona killed mouse, was a lucky mouse. I have seen video`s where the mouse suffers for minutes. Vertebrates have a more advanced nervous system, they are far more intelligent and will usually experience alot of fear and pain when fed to invertebrates. Invertebrates, like roaches and crickets have a very low pain sensitivity, and I think their fearlike response to being eaten, is just a reflex/instinct. People have watched their roaches clean their antenna`s, while they have been eaten alive. You can decapitate a cricket, and it will live on for a long time.
This is just my opinion, I respect yours

Pardon my bad english

Greets
Robin

[J M Clegg]

Hi Robin,

Of course I respect your opinion. That's the great thing about forums - seeing other peoples point of view.

Jay.

[Simon Batten]

Well done Simon - thats an excellent piece of research. Could you possibly add the link of the URL that you found this information on?

Actually - looking at what has been written, how long before some idiot goodytwoshoes numpty decides breeding Tarantulas is a cruel act as their is a possibility of the male getting eaten alive???? I dread to think..........................

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmenvfru/52/4090727.htm

7th paragraph down was a mission finding that again, lol