Lyrognathus crotalus

[Nicola Dolby]

Hi, I've noticed some Lyrognathus crotalus for sale recently, and I've seen them for sale before this year, but I've been put off buying any because I can't find out anything about them! Can anyone help please? I don't even know if they're burrowers or arborial!

[Jay Howdle]

It would be interesting to know Nicola, Sonny has one of these in his collection and we cant find anything out about them either. The one we have here likes to burrow, thats about as much as we know lol.
J x

[wesley flower]

What i do in a situation where there is a species that i know little about is do research on the species and genus in quetion, find out the place of origin, and behavioral characturistics ie terrestrial or arboreal. i also look in to the nech of which the species play in their natural ecosystems as to get a good idea of prey items that the said species will take etc. their is a marvelous sourse of info, out there ranging from books to the internet all you have to do is look.

if you cant find a specific species say Lygronathus crotalus, try and find a closely related spp fron the same genus, ie Lygronathus robustus.

I believe the species in the genus Lygronathus to be deep borrowers, originating from india, malaysia etc. coming from the rain forrest regions these spiders require a moderate/high level of humidity and temperature.

There is actually a small write up on Lygronathus robustus in the 'Colins Gem Photo Guide (spiders)'

[Eduard Johan Hijmensen]

nice write-up Wesley but..... Lyrognathus robustum has got nothing to do with Lyrognathus crotalus. L. robustum is more closely related to Coremiocnemis.

[Nicola Dolby]

Thanks everyone. Well, this is what I've found out so far - they come from Noth India. HELP!!!!!!

[wesley flower]

nice write-up Wesley but..... Lyrognathus robustum has got nothing to do with Lyrognathus crotalus. L. robustum is more closely related to Coremiocnemis.

thank you
i am confused now........what is the point on having taxonomy if all these species are all messed up. Lygronathus crotalus Pocock, 1895 (India) I would say is a true Lygronathus being of which was the first to be described, L. robustus being discribed by Mr A Smith in 1988 (Malaysia), and again in 1992 by Schmidt & von Wirth, so if this statment is correct

"Lyrognathus robustum has got nothing to do with Lyrognathus crotalus. L. robustum is more closely related to Coremiocnemis"

Why didn't Andrew put L.robustus in the genus Coremiocnemis. Is there evidance to support that L. robustus is in the wrong genus?
I have been interested in the taxonomy of old world Theraphosinae (various sub families) for many years. so this subject is interesting to me. if you have any evidance to suggest the previous statment i would really love to read it.

[Eduard Johan Hijmensen]

this was the news i got from Volker when i visited him with Malay material.
Eddy

[Abi Skeet]

Sorry to bring this up again but I have tried to do some research and all I can find it well....NOTHING. I can't even find a picture of one. What do they look like as adults?

[Colin D Wilson]

going on Eddy's statement that they're closer to Coremiocnemis (Malay' high lands) then i would keep them at around 65 - 75 degrees, fairly high humidity and give them deep moist substrate.
I've seen only one and if memory serves they do, in general, physically have the charactoristics of a robustum, having a thick set "fringed" leg IV but are of a blue tinged black colouration.

[Steve Nunn]

Hi,
I disagree 100% with Volker, IMO L.robustus is a clear and obvious Lyrognathus as it shares with all other members of the genus (not just the NE Indian material, that is a tiny cross section of the group in reality) not one, but several synapomorphic characters. If you put L.robustus into a selenocosmiine cladogram, you can clearly see the most parsimonious conclusion is to place this animal as an extreme variant in the Lyrognathus. It shares absolutely no synapomorphic characters with the Malay Coremiocnemis and further, if you keep them like you keep all Coremiocnemis, they continually die, extremely hard to keep alive and impossible to captive raise (let alone breed). There are multiple examples of the failures and not a single success with this highland species. L.crotalus is also a highland species, similar to L.robustus, although I cannot say how easy the are to keep.

Eddy, I think the problem lies in the fact Volker is currently mired in the Ornithoctoninae and a little " stuck" in the old thoughts on the Lyrognathus, additionally, he has not seen the other southern Indonesian material belonging to this genus, male and female, I have. You can explore this further if you wish by asking Volker what are the synapomorphies that tie L.robustus to the Coremiocnemis (they are all plesiomorphic and some examples are intercheliceral pegs, bilobular spermethecae and divided Met.IV, characters present in several genera in the region [not even individually, but as a character combination!!!], such as the Selenocosmia as a clear and decisive answer ) Volker may have previously looked to the undivided Met.IV as a synapomorphy for the Indian Lyrognathus, the problem is that same character is seen in other southern Lyrognathus, not just the far north Indian material (L.crotalus,L.pugnax & L.saltator) and further, seen on southern form Lyrognathus that also possess int.pegs & bilobular spermethecae. Now, if anyone can pull robustus out of the Lyrognathus and into the Coremiocnemis after that, well, you've got it figured different to me. Show me a single synapomorphy for the Coremiocnemis including L.robustus and I'll eat my hat. I have examined types (north and south) too, so I can speak with first hand experience.

Cheers,
Steve

[James Box]

thanks for that explanation, Steve! and welcome to the forum

[Steve Nunn]

You're welcome James

Please also understand I'm not criticising Volker and his work at all, I admire Volker, just in this case I believe he's wrong and only due to not seeing the same material I have in this situation (which is unusual truth be known, Volker has examined in general much more selenocosmiine type material than I can ever hope to), that is all.

Steve

[Ray Hale]

Well said Steve and welcome to the BTS Forum. Differences of opinion is what makes this hobby interesting.....hope to see you one day at the lectures.

Ray Hale
BTS Committee

[Colin D Wilson]

Welcome on board Steve (bout time i hear everyone say )

Thanks for that write up, very interesting

Colin

[Steve Nunn]

Well said Steve and welcome to the BTS Forum. Differences of opinion is what makes this hobby interesting.....hope to see you one day at the lectures.

Ray Hale
BTS Committee

Thankyou for the welcome everyone One of these days Ray for sure, I'll make it yet! As you say there is absolutely nothing wrong with debates, so long as they stay respectful, not just of those posting, but mainly and most importantly to the general body who reads the posts, Volker's fine I'm sure, he loves a good debate

Steve