Vagans or hybrid pair

[Peter Roach]

I have what i assume are a pair or B vagans, can anyone tell me yay or nay ?

First 2 pics are of male, second 2 of female

[Mark Lynes]

Nobody can tell you without DNA samples.

[Damien Calis]

So who do you bribe to have one of those tested?

[Jay Howdle]

Hiya Pete,
They dont look anything like 'Flicker' He is a true Vagans. The one we gave you is all jet black apart from his abdoman & those in the picture are nothing like him!
J x

[Peter Roach]

Hiya Pete,
They dont look anything like 'Flicker' He is a true Vagans. The one we gave you is all jet black apart from his abdoman & those in the picture are nothing like him!
J x

He must have grown the red hairs on the way home !!!!!

First 2 pics are the spider I got from you

[Jay Howdle]

lol must be you terrible picture taking Pete!
Flicker is a true Vagans & thats from a reliable source.
Not sure about your other one though?
Best of luck in finding out but think twice before putting them together before knowing for certain.
J x

[Damien Calis]

I've been following this thread with great interest, as I have what I have been assured are two Vagans, but have not yet been able to have this independently confirmed.

So does anybody know how to tell the difference? And if so, is there a resident expert out there somewhere who would be willing to identify the true Vaganses (what's the plural for Vagans anyway) in our midst? I for one would be most willing to bribe someone with cash or alcoholic beverages if such a legitimate expert could be located, but have had no luck so far...

[Christian Elowsky]

Mayhap Eric Reynolds will chime in, he knows Brachypelma vagans and Sericoplema rubronitens very well. The differences between species rarely require DNA, and the differences between genera does not at all.

What do you think they are if not B. vagans and why?

[Mark Pennell]

ID'ing from pictures is hit and miss and this species is one of the worst!
As a long term Brachy fan of over 20 plus years, I personally stopped keeping any of the red rumped variants, let alone breeding them.

I am pretty sure a pure bred B, vagans is almost impossible to find on the captive bred market (in Europe any how!) several years back the gene pool was seriously interfered and corrupted by unscrupulous individuals.

In my humble opinion that male does not look quite right and if it was mine it would not attempt to use him. I take it its mature?

Have a look at the Theraphosidae gallery B, vagans

Regards
Mark

[Mark Lynes]

Mayhap Eric Reynolds will chime in, he knows Brachypelma vagans and Sericoplema rubronitens very well. The differences between species rarely require DNA, and the differences between genera does not at all.

What do you think they are if not B. vagans and why?

Christian

See Mark Pennel's post. 'Tis the 'interference' problem to which I was alluding in my initial post.

I can still vividly recall vagans x albopilosum hybrid spiderlings coming on to the market quite widely in the early 90's.

Mark

[Marc Meyer]

Hi @ll,

from my point of view, it is maybe not only in the hobby a hybrid.

Best regards,
Marc.

[Christian Elowsky]

Well, this is news to me here in the US. I have a mature female B. vagans who I purchased 5 years ago from Rick Blauman, who probably had her for many years also. Was this a European market problem or world wide?

What are you specifically looking at when you say "hybrid"?

[Peter Roach]

Christian, do you have any photos of your female vagans so we can compare it with mine ?

[Christian Elowsky]

She's in need of a molt, but I'll take some and get them on here.

[stephen bland]

pete am no expert on such matters but from visiting you a few weeks a go. you spider room is very bright when main light is on so this will effect the pikky and color of vagans try takeing one in normal daylight??
may help with ID