B. Vagans crossed with B. Albopilosa = mutant?

[Oli Dodds]

Hey everybody, just found these pics on some russion spider site, apparently they bred a vagans with an albopilosa and a healthy sac was produced. Inside the sac was this double-abdomened spider apparently!
It matured into a female and is still alive they say
Enjoy,
Oli

[James Box]

WOW, what a lucky spider...i'd love two stomachs to fill! could eat twice as much curry

on a more serious note, this could be a fairly powerful message against hybridization...

[Colin D Wilson]

This has appeared quite a lot over time on a lot of the arachnid forums and has sparked some healthy debates (there's one on here i'm sure but i can't find it)

There was speculation on whether the pictures were real or not, and i think it was Mikhail who confirmed them as true as he knew about (or had seen) the spider in question (someone correct me there if i remember it incorrectly)

Colin

[Louise~Nichols]

Errrm...that's really awful. I disagree with hybrid trials whatever the critter involved, I wouldn't want to create a mutant, firstly for the interest of the welfare of the animal, and the risk of possible damage to bloodlines if they somehow found their way into purebred collections.

Also within snake breeding there have been two-headed cornsnakes hatched out, except they weren't the result of crossing the species barrier.

[Anthony Killick]

Very cruel in my eyes, should have been euthanised as a sling.

[Colin D Wilson]

Also within snake breeding there have been two-headed cornsnakes hatched out, except they weren't the result of crossing the species barrier.

Unfortunately the majority of "mutants" for want of a better word in the corn snake scenario became more evident in the hobby two or three generations on from when the Great Plains Ratsnake (Elaphe emoryi) was bred into the gene pool (America late 70's) to (suposedly) increase natural immunity to some common diseases, (liver failure, gall bladder failure etc) that had become more evident due to breeders (who were only out to make quick money) mating snakes from the same clutch.

[Louise~Nichols]

Unfortunately the majority of "mutants" for want of a better word in the corn snake scenario became more evident in the hobby two or three generations on from when the Great Plains Ratsnake (Elaphe emoryi) was bred into the gene pool (America late 70's) to (suposedly) increase natural immunity to some common diseases, (liver failure, gall bladder failure etc) that had become more evident due to breeders (who were only out to make quick money) mating snakes from the same clutch.

This is pretty much why I abhor the creamsicle bloodlines particularly, it is the most recently accepted hybrid, blending into the corn scene with many petshops selling them as merely a *colour variant*, and I don't feel we should have any tolerance of it at all...although certain candycane bloodlines are also loaded with the grey rat genetics, and its somewhat dubious side effects during reproduction.
At least most breeders live to learn, although there will always be the *get rich quick* types in existence...I try to educate my customers in depth on breeding issues, both moralistic and practical.
Thanks for your input Colin.

[Chris Hamilton]

From a genetics point of view...this hybrid didn't get the two abdomens b/c it is a "mutant" and should be avoided...
These species have been crossed before...double abdomens have been recorded before from other species that were not hybrids. This seems to be a mutation that can arise, for whatever reason, in theraphosids...but not just "because" it was hybridized.
There are "hybrid zones" all over every ecosystem, where for whatever reasons, species can breed with each other in that area...but that combination of genes doesn't work in the differing environments as you get away from the hybrid zones and back into the normal range of those species.

Chris

[Stanley A. Schultz]

From a genetics point of view...this hybrid didn't get the two abdomens b/c it is a "mutant" and should be avoided...
These species have been crossed before...double abdomens have been recorded before from other species that were not hybrids. This seems to be a mutation that can arise, for whatever reason, in theraphosids...but not just "because" it was hybridized. ...

And for the record, this is not a "mutant," i.e., a mutated organism or genetic mutation. Technically it belongs in the "Siamese Twin/Parasitic Twin" group of developmental anomalies. It is not necessarily the result of a mutation, but rather of a failed attempt at twinning.

Which brings us to another question: Has anyone ever seen or heard of true, identical twin tarantulas, i.e., two individuals arising from the same fertilized egg?

Enjoy your déjà vu tarantula!

[Ray Gabriel]

Hello,

this is an example of an ABDOPHAGUS specimen a conjoined spider, like the ones with 2 carapace (Carapagus) and 16 legs ....and i am not joking, a lesser degree of Abdopagism is when you see a patterned spider with 2 setts of patters on the abdomen as found in a few pokes (future BTS article.....well 2 actually).

There is a picture of a pure bred Acanthoscurria (cannot rember which sp) with 2 abdomens in the book Mygales by Jean Michele Verdez.

B. vagans x albopilosum were bred many years ago, then some people bred the offspring back together and sold them as B. angustum in the UK (yep another BTS article)

Ray

[Trevor Parsons]

The cool factor of that T rates high. I'd be willing (if I had the cash) to pay P. metallica price for that.

[Mikhail F. Bagaturov]

Hi!
For those of You who always forgot that one russian has always tracks You

http://tarantulas.tropica.ru/en/node/614