Picture of G.Rosea bite

[Colin D Wilson]

Ok i'm going to cut in before it gets out of hand, sorry to all who have made comments or were due to.

People have offered their opinions and had their say, and at the end of the day Oli is free to interact with his spider his way, as a lot of others do.

A few notes put together in the form of a diary of events would still be appreciated if you can spare the time Oli.

Colin

[Phil Rea]

Ok, I've removed a couple of posts from the thread and re opened it.

Can we please all keep this civil, and then the thread can remain on track and open.

[Peter Lacey]

Good to see it open again.
I had a look in Breene's book and Marshall's too last night. They both recognise the need to handle Ts.

Just out of curiosity, and my compelling desire to have an explanation for everything, does the BTS see any requirement for handling Ts or is it a full stop hands off policy?
Does it suggest any means of handling or procedure for moving and inspecting Ts?

[Ray Hale]

The BTS has a non handling policy. This has been part of our constitution since 1989. The reasons for this are as follows.

1. Concern for the well being of the spider.
2. Concern for the well being of the handler (there are many species in the hobby today that, whilst not dangerous are most certainly aggressive!)
3. There are those amongst us who would see the hobby banned and uneccessary handling in public fuels their arguement.

At the end of the day it is your animal and therefore you may treat it as you wish and it is true that in private many BTS members do handle their pets. The BTS has always promoted the sensible treatment of tarantulas. We have never tried to enforce our policies on others or condemn the handling of tarantulas it is simply a Society policy. With regard to the books and references mentioned they are written by members of the American Tarantula Society who have a different policy to that of the BTS.

We recognise the need to occasionally handle ( cleaning, moving).I hope this clarifies the situation.

On a pesonal note I do not handle my tarantulas in public except when lecturing to Universitys and then only to illustrate the correct methods to pick up.



Ray Hale
BTS Committee

[Phil Rea]

Good to see it open again.
I had a look in Breene's book and Marshall's too last night. They both recognise the need to handle Ts.

Just out of curiosity, and my compelling desire to have an explanation for everything, does the BTS see any requirement for handling Ts or is it a full stop hands off policy?
Does it suggest any means of handling or procedure for moving and inspecting Ts?

My understanding of the BTS policy is that whilst unexpected instances of handling can't be helped, such as if P. miranda runs out of it's enclosure when feeding, bolts up your arm and takes up residence in your armpit (as has happened to me ), then that's unavoidable, but otherwise there's absolutely no need for recreational handling or more to the point for the promotion of recreational handling.

Ray beat me to it

[Peter Lacey]

thanks for clarifying that guys (pardon the americanism), I'm sure its stated elsewhere but never harms to repeat.

I love your term Phil "recreational handling"

[Simon Norfolk]

Okay- this could stir up some controversy so I just want to abdicate myself from any disapproving looks and frowns at the top of this post by saying: I have never handled my tarantula and would choose not to because she frightens me. That said...

It seems slightly unfair to me (and pious?) that the handling of tarantulas is so widely by the society and yet I would ascertain that half the members wouldn't think twice about petting a dog. However, more people die per year from dog attacks and other rabid domesticated animals than have probably ever died from a tarantula bite. If a domesticated dog does happen to bite its owner ( or even a random passer by) the dog is often put down. I'm sure that here a parallel can be drawn to accidentally dropping the spider following a bite. I'm not condoning the handling of tarantula's- I just feel as though there's some hypocrisy surrounding the situation. I have many Phasmids too- and would the BTS condemn the handling of them also?

Just a thought.

[Phil Rea]

Simon, as far as I'm aware there is no recorded evidence of anyone ever dying from a tarantula bite.

The BTS don't condemn the handling of tarantulas, they simply don't encourage it or encourage the promotion of handling tarantulas. If you look at Ray Hale's post earlier in the thread, it's fully explained there. It's for the safety of the spider and the safety of the owner. There's no piousness involved.

(I'm assuming that the word that's missing in your post between 'tarantulas is so widely by the society' is condemn )

You mention handling phasmids in your post. The difference between a tarantula and a phasmid can be illustrated thus :

[Oli Dodds]

Wow Phil, thats a REALLY nice picture- my new wallpaper i think LOL
Is it moulting, because it looks a little like it, the way the murinus is sitting/standing.
Oli

[Pam Turner]

Wow Phil, thats a REALLY nice picture- my new wallpaper i think LOL
Is it moulting, because it looks a little like it, the way the murinus is sitting/standing.
Oli

Look at the fangs Oli...that murinus is very PO'd!! Nothing "molting" about it. It has just reared back so far it flipped over. I have seen my friend's lividum do the same thing.

[Oli Dodds]

Look at the fangs Oli...that murinus is very PO'd!! Nothing "molting" about it. It has just reared back so far it flipped over. I have seen my friend's lividum do the same thing.

Ahh, very good point Pam, didnt notice that.
Oli

[James Box]

Simon, personally i'd say the petting of a dog is not to be compared to T-handling even on a shallow level, as a dog usually likes being petted, and petting constitutes no danger to the dog whatsoever.
however, tarantulas are much smaller, much more delicate and also PROBABLY not as capable of recognising "friendly" touches, at least from outside their species. such touching is likely to stress them to some degree, and they may run or jump, and bad things can happen to them, like falling too hard or being accidentally trodden on.
i'm not against CAREFUL handling by people who know what they're doing (and in fact, i do personally handle some of my T's occasionally), but i would not recommend it to others. even under the best circumstances, injuries can happen to the tarantula... i've had some close calls, and some would perhaps rightly say to me that any risk at all is too much.

also, as Ray pointed out, there are in society complete and utterly joyless morons who would love to see this fascinating hobby banned, and those people can have ammunition if (careless) people get bitten, even if WE know the "victim" deserved it. (yes, and i could easily by that "victim" and wouldn't expect pity!)

i'm aware of people who have nursed their T's back to health after an injury or illness of some kind, often with direct contact, even getting bitten...so some good can come of careful handling in some cases.

i think the point is, for those that handle and those that don't, the safety of the T is the most important thing!
i don't believe the BTS policy to be overly pious, and they are clear that they don't condemn, they just don't encourage.

love that murinus pic, Phil! my murinus juvies are cowards! i've yet to see a threat display haha

[Andrew Ferguson]

Hi, I hope you don't mind me chipping in here. I'm not writing from experience but from perception.

Dogs are intelligent animals. They can be trained from a very early age. Canines live in packs, and that is why they get on well with families.

Tarantulas live by basic instinct. Fight or flight would probably constitute a lot of their thought process when a threat is seen.


Regarding the BTS No Handling Policy. I see it as a guide, not a steadfast hard law. It is there for protection of both species. I totally understand people wanting to handle their pet. But if a complete newbie and novice (i.e Me!) can see that the BTS NHP is their for a reason. Then they must be doing something right.

To Oli. I hope the pain is dying down. What treatment have you used to try and subdue the swelling / pain?

[Oli Dodds]

To Oli. I hope the pain is dying down. What treatment have you used to try and subdue the swelling / pain?

No swelling or pain mate, I think it was a dry bite. Either that or im invincible LOL
Oli

[Phil Rea]

Wow Phil, thats a REALLY nice picture- my new wallpaper i think LOL
Is it moulting, because it looks a little like it, the way the murinus is sitting/standing.
Oli

No Oli, that's normal behaviour for her. P. murinus RCF are not noted for their calmness

Look at the fangs Oli...that murinus is very PO'd!! Nothing "molting" about it. It has just reared back so far it flipped over. I have seen my friend's lividum do the same thing.

I'd just opened the lid of her enclosure to throw some food in, and that was the thanks I got!