Grammostola question

[shaz hagan]

Right Peeps, I have posted this over on BN so some of you might of read it?
Anyway im not getting the response or am i finding out what i need to know.
My plans for future are to breed brachys and Grammos and now i am getting deeper in to the Grammostola's i think i hit a problem?
Well to me anyway.
I have been collecting from all over different ages and Sp and whatever.
Every single RCF i have been sold i feel isnt.
Im now unsure just what a G Rosea is as i read misleading info somewhere which could well be right?
Grammostola porteri is NCF? Grammostola rosea is RCF?
This is whats confused me is tha above right?
Now can someone tell me what the below pictures are please?



I would class the above pics RCF


The 2 above NCF RIGHT?
Now the below was sold to me as RCF i feel they are not, Maybe a cross from a RCF and a NCF maybe?



Might seem pretty minor to some but im convinced the lower pictures as they are already adult wont change none in colour and they are not TRUE colour forms.
Which means that 80% at least of whats being sold as RCF grammos are not what they seem

So can someone shed some light on this?
And explain if they 2 colour forms are the same or not please.
Thanks guys

[Rebecca Norris]

Maybe it just needs a moult shaz? The female i mean? I'm not sure if the 2 colour forms can produce viable offspring or not..

[shaz hagan]

what needs a moult?
The funny reddish ones at bottom are 2 different spiders, infact thats 6 different spiders.
They cant all need to moult

[Pam Turner]

I agree with your assessment of color on the first 4 pics. Not sure about #5, but # 6 looks like what I have heard referred to as a "copper color form". So, I have heard of RCF, NCF, and CCF, in regard to rosea colors. Don't know if that's a universal thing, or just here in the USA.

[shaz hagan]

Thanks for that, not something i had heard mentioned.
But thats why im asking so i know for sure what im meant to be breeding and what not

[Oli Dodds]

The 2 pics at the bottom are NCF...
The others, you were right in your assumptions of them being NCF and RCF.
I believe the CCF you refer to is the golden form, none of the spids in your pics are that colourform though- unless they need a fresh moult like Rebecca says.
As for porteri, I'm pretty sure that isnt a valid species anymore, the porteri's were re-specified as rosea's as far as I'm aware.
Hope this helps,
Oli

[shaz hagan]

Ok so if they are NCF how comes the largley reddish tinge?
This is what makes me wonder mostly.
And i nhave many many others and could spend hours taking pics lol
but i might have one that matches this CCF too!
shall take a look 2moro and see

[Colin D Wilson]

A lot of breeders and taxonomists are using the species name porteri to describe the normal colour form, rosea to describe the red colour form.
The species porteri is accepted in the World Spider Catalog.

There are, in the hobby, rosea that are given the suffix OCF (orange form) and CCF (copper form). these, to my knowledge and belief, are just regional varients of the RCF (G rosea).

Taking into consideration lighting discrepencies
Picture #5 reflects the look of an NCF
Picture #6 shows the copper / brassy looking carapace of the CCF (although the brick coloured setae could point to a dull RCF)
both could look different after the next moult.

[James Box]

hey nice to see another SE Londoner who loves their Grammastola's
i'm not sure if it helps, but 4 and 5 look alot like my two G rosea's. at least that's what they were sold to me as, and i've not seen any reason to doubt that til now. the pet shop owner (it was Paul from Cold Blooded in Rainham) thought there was a chance they were hybrids of some kind, as he didn't think the colour was right. however they were juvies then, and have grown alot since then. their colour now looks perfectly normal to me (not that i'm an expert).
i'm getting some RCF slings in a couple months, but won't be able to compare for a long time after, obviously.

[shaz hagan]

Thanks for that Colin
All very confusing stuff to be honest, i mention im going to breed T 1 with T 2 for instance and then people say NOOOOOOOO 2 diff colour forms!
This was confusing me.
It wasnt until picture 2 spider her names Jim went redder still it was very clear she looks nothing like the others.
Peter spider 1 only arrived yesterday but the guy i got him from had a RCF for sure female and a NCF, Big difference.
I think to be clear with what im doing i will only breed the very reds like in top picture and the clearly Normals.
I think the rest can go off to someone else once i have sorted through that way i know what im doing

And James makes a change to see anyone from South london normally everyones many miles away, although im starting to gather a few!
My real loves brachys have about 100 now and still collecting, The Grammastola's maybe i have about 30 now as parted with a fair few.
And this part of collecting is still very small

I have not been over to Pauls' yet tend to stick with my lads at charlton reptiles.
Although i do try visit lots of places to do reviews on all the shops, Just slack this year

If your ever local to belmarsh prision give me a shout welcome to pop in and have a lookie

[Colin D Wilson]

Just a few pics for reference...
all taken in the same room, under the same flouro lighting and with the same camera.

NCF male
RCF female
OCF male
CCF female

[shaz hagan]

Great you confused me more now i will have to do that although i bet i have more than 4 coplours i know i have some like everyone of yours!
we need new colour forms

So the OCF and the CCF are just pretty much same all G Rosea but different colour forms of it right?
But you wouldnt put a NCF with say a CCF for instance breeding wise?
thank you for that though

[shaz hagan]

Just thinking that what you posted makes for a great refrence also
Should anyone else ask this very question, Although im guessing no one will be a big a pain as me lol

[Colin D Wilson]

To be honest Grammostola was (and is) just as confusing as the Avicularia redescription that's underway.
Phrixotrichus rosea became G rosea, Phrixotrichus cala was then considered to be a varient on G rosea (but still labeled G cala for a while), we have G spatulata thrown in there as well as a synonym........oh...the list goes on
Away from the G rosea enigma, we have the proposal that G iheringi is just a regional colour /size varient on G acteon argument (one which i'm taking a special interest in)
At least now, with technology as it is, we can be 99.9% sure when species are redescribed (i knocked off 0.1% for Human error )

[shaz hagan]

Well you have been real helpful so BIG thank you and after a few brain killing weeks i think i know what im doing lol
Hoping to now i have a few of this lot here mated now i will have patter of different colour grammys real soon! to confuse me more