pokie comunity

[kev hall]

hi all just looked on spidershop website and they are selling Poecilotheria regalis slings, these slings are being kept together,my question is how much room would be needed for 5 female adults,i would love to give it a go, and would make it a centerpiece in the front room

[Peter Lacey]

Many of us have looked at community tanks and pondered whether its worth trying. Both Avics and Pokies have the capability to live together in the same tank but most people suffer the inevitable canibalism that follows. P. regalis are known to live communally as slings, as are many other Pokies, but once they turn to adults the wise seem to separate them before the numbers drop!
If you haven't kept tarantula before most people would suggest you start with something more docile than a Pokie and would frown upon your first set-up as a community tank.
I'm sure if you do a google search you'll plenty of discussion to support my sentiments, not for the beginner, possibly not unless you are prepared to lose some of your tarantula.

[kev hall]

thankyou peter for your reply and concerns my current collection contains
1x haplopelma lividum(cobalt blue)
1x lasiodora parahybanna(salmon pink)
1x acanthoscurria geniculata(giant white knee)
1x nhandu coloratovillosus(brazilian black and white)
1x b.auratum(flame knee)
3x b.smithi(red knee)
1x heteroscoda maculate(togo star burst)
1x citharischius crawshayi(king baboon)
1x p.ornate(fringed ornamental)
i bought them all as slings and all doing fine,ive had two deaths which i cant explain i just put it down to one of these things. i do agree this is not a beginners ideal set up,but ive had around 8 months experience now,and when the Poecilotheria regalis mature at around the 18 month mark that would be 2 yrs in the hobby, i know ill be still new and learning but im up for a challenge

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi

Both Avics and Pokies have the capability to live together in the same tank

Only Avic I have heard people have success with in a "communally" based set up are A. minatrix. Do you know of others?

P. regalis are known to live communally as slings, as are many other Pokies, but once they turn to adults the wise seem to separate them before the numbers drop!

I have seen examples where adults in the same tank have been fine. Sure some of the spiders that you sart out with in a given set up may die or even be eaten but I also do not think it is as clear cut as you say. A lot depends on space (too much and too little) food (too much and too little) and the other 50 thousand vairibles that can lead to success and failure in a comunal set up. Fact is there is A LOT more to learn about this aspect in tarantula keeping.

If you haven't kept tarantula before most people would suggest you start with something more docile than a Pokie

You can start off with any spider regardless of species. IMHO there is no ideal beginer spider. What the real problem is the people who do not do the smallest bit of research before buying such an animal, then end up asking the most basic sometimes rather silly questions once they have to spider at home.
I have so much more time for those who ask before they aquire a given spider it shows a bit of common sence.

and would frown upon your first set-up as a community tank.

these same people should recieve a bit of a slap for such negativity. By asking questions now before the set up, shows research into the subject so why not inform instead of discorage?

I'm sure if you do a google search you'll plenty of discussion to support my sentiments, not for the beginner, possibly not unless you are prepared to lose some of your tarantula.

I think you could find just the same amount of disscussion that doesn't support your sentiments also.

Sorry not having a go, just felt you were being a little negative.
Although negative can also be fun!
Cheers
Chris

[kev hall]

the main things i want to know is how much territory would a adult female have in the wild.do you over do the set up with retreats have plenty off food and would say a 3ft cube be big enough for adults

[Rich.Harrington]

As has already been stated communes have so many possible reasons for failure that you can only try, however as to species. I think the best thing to begin with is pick one that is A.bred regularly and in large numbers. B. not too costly.

In the end you have to make a setup knowing and accepting "loses" therefore until you are more experienced, in my opinion species that are in low numbers currently should not be used, simply for the sake of numbers and preservation.

However other than that, yes pick anything you want, again the variables involved with communes almost rule out the "normal" behaviour of individuals of a species. What may seem like a traditionally docile species could turn highly aggressive when in numbers and visa versa.

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi Kev

How much territory an adult female has in the wild is a tricky one to answer as I think it is hard to say how far a female would stray from it's burrow in search of food. Some species may not even stray at all and just sit at the door waiting in ambush (I would sy most do this?).

If we just think of the sit in ambust senario then in theroy at least not a lot of space is going to be needed if the spider is well established in a good retreat. On the other hand if it is not established then the problems are more likely to occour when the spiders are looking for a retreat to inhabit.
So how do you get around this, because I think it may be impractical to try and introduce two or more adult females into a large inclosure and expect them to each find a place to hide, without bumping into each other and one or more ending up as food.
If it was my project I would go about it by buying just one adult female and get her first established in the large tank. You can kit the tank out with a good number of retreats etc so that it has plenty of places to chose from. With any luck it will find one that is more favourable than the rest and stay put.
Now it is established get a male or more and try and breed that female. If successful leave the eggsac to hatch out in with the mother and just add food/water/batternburg sponge cake or what ever food you feed your spiders, and let them all grow, spread out out to their own little areas of the tank. I freelly admit that not all of the spiders are going to live and takeing one or two out at different stages is not going to harm any I think. At the end after a year or two/three or whatever you may have an intresting little set up?

Another way is to try something similar with a number of cheap spiderlings (like Rich said is it worth paying out on something that may in the end not work out well?) My tip here would be P.regalis which are not only normally cheap but hardy/proberly the best looking Poecilotheria there is and to top it all have prove successful with other people when kept comunally.

Other things you could try for example is to buy 3 or for adult females and partition the tank off into smaller tanks. Once established then remove the partitions.
I'm sure there are many other things you could try given a little thought, just don't expect them to work as after all it is a bit like trial and error.
I will say though that if you are uncomfortable with loseing spiders it is not something I would recomend but if you are ok with that, then fill your boots and give it a shot. It could prove good.

Hope this helps any.
Chris

Oh yeah, don't forget to post up how it goes if you decied to give it a run.

[Peter Lacey]

Hi Kev
soz, took a look at your previous posts after replying last night and realised you've not just jumped into the deep end. It was a bit late last night to make a second reply.
Nice selection of Ts there.
I've been considering communities from the day I purchased the first one and I'm continually asking people how they get on with them and what makes the cohabitable incohabitable. I'll soon be putting my theories into practise with 3 x P. rufliata and 3 x P. subfusca in 2 community tanks.

Chris
my view is its rather irresponsible to jump into anything without weighing up the pro's and cons, and just because one person has proven it can work doesn't provide an argument for everyone to try the same. As you suggest, research your topic, gain the knowledge of those with experience and treat with due respect.
Whilst I might sound negative I believe it shows the underlying desire to get it right prior to the arrival of the occupants. I also believe without showing that certain breeds need a bit more respect we may encourage desire over wisdom.
I think if you read my reply again you'll find I haven't made it clear cut (the wise seem to separate them before the numbers drop)

I've come across a number of hobbyists who have kept Avics together, A. minatrix seems the more successful but as pre-adult A. fasciculata, A. purpurea and the suggestion of sp. Amazonica too.

I'm hoping soon to add to this debate with experience rather than theory in the coming months.

[Toran Tanner]

I have about 6 different small communal housing setups. To name a few C. andersoni have had no cannibals, P.subfuscas and P. cambridgei. I keep mine in small groups. If you want to give something a go and you have the money to buy the slings and what not then go for it. just remember these are animals and are unpredictable. so the out come could be great or crap.
But I feel if all their needs are met then there should be no problems.

[Nicola Dolby]

If you only wish to keep 3-4 P. regalis then a tank 36"x36"x36" might be too big. What I've done is grow a group up together from spiderling, and they are now sub-adult. in fact one of the males has just matured. These are P. rufilata and I keep them in a tank 18"x18"x24" high. They are still very happy together and all live in a large bark tube. At the end of the day I'd give it a go and see what happens. As long as they're fed and watered and the 'conditions' are ok, there should be no problem with P. regalis

[Peter Lacey]

Hi Nicola,
I was considering 3 P. rufilata in a 12"x12"x18" Exo but having read how big they grow I thought I'd make use of my 18"x18"x24" Exo instead. The smaller one will be used for my P. subfusca, 3 of each will hopefully be arriving this week.

[Nicola Dolby]

That might be abit big for only 3 of them. I use an 18x18x24 with a bark tube inside (internal diameter 6") and I've got 11 in there. The males are just maturing and the females are sub-adult. You might find that the more contact the spiders have with each other then the less chance of them becoming 'estranged' and turning on each other. If you're only having 3 I'd use the smaller tank, there's plenty of height. Also when you put a bark tube in there please make sure its wide on the inside, that's where space will become an issue and as you know, poecilotheria are no fans of sunlight!

[Peter Lacey]

Finally put some pictures up of my 3 Poecilotheria rufliata

http://www.thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=26593#post26593