Impulse buy

[Tom Forman]

Well today I found the perfect spider to finish my collection.
The Grammostola sp. "Concepicon"

I never thought it would be a grammostola but there is something great looking about this one...

Of course I had to buy it. Ever seen something and you think to yourself, wow I have to get that before some1 else does.

I haven't got the money whatsoever at the minute but I don't care I had to get it.

In the end it became a couple of spiders, now the typical question, where to put them...

http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insect/product_info.php?products_id=1410

OHH, I just realized they are wild caught. Hmm I hope that is ok. Never thought I'd buy wild caught ones and now I've done it by accident.

[mary walters]

It looks a beautiful spider though Tom, and there's nothing wrong with wild caught, I have a few here.

[patsyking]

Its beautiful Tom!

[Toran Tanner]

and there's nothing wrong with wild caught, I have a few here.

disagree with you there mary all I am saying.

[Colin D Wilson]

Well you can't go wrong with a Grammostola in my mind, always a welcome addition to anyones collection.
This particular species is a very good looking individual.

Impulse buys are always there to temp you and if you feel you can give the animal a good life, and have the neccessary equipment at home waiting, then there's nothing wrong with it.

My friend Chris, another grammy nut, was made aware of, and studied these in situ last year on his yearly "3 month spider studying pilgramidge". he was well impressed.

Good luck with it

Colin

one thing i have just noticed, Lee has spelt the area "Concepicon" the area in Chilli is "Concepcion"

[Yvonne Woolley]

Another Grammastola Nut

As you know Colin I am fast becoming a Grammastola fan would love to have some more pointers from someone who has sen them in thier natural habitat any chance of letting me know Chris who?
P.S. jenny did not feed on the cricket after all, so still keeping my fingers crossed.

[Tom Forman]

I am still pleased with my buy.

The only thing I am not happy about is the wild caught bit.

You go to a zoo and you see a wild caught animal caged up, they are not happy, captive bred ones are not as active as in the wild either but you can see they are not miserable.

Mary, you say keeping wild caught ones is fine and I'm sure it is but compared to keeping captive bred ones I think it is a bit cruel to capture a T from its wild habitat, ship it half way across the world to then end up in a little "box" type enclosure at mine.

Can't be helped now.

I will post some pictures later on in the week once they have arrived.

[James Box]

well the wild-caught thing is a big debate. it doesn't matter too much to the tarantula, surely, as long as it's kept well. but to the general population it can be damaging.
all captive bred populations start with wild caught, obviously, so it has to happen occasionally.
it's the fact that alot of wild-caught's have been smuggled and the fact that they sometimes are over-collected (like G rosea as an example of which i am aware) that makes it bad.
smuggling is bad for everyone... it hurts the populations, subjects T's to bad conditions by money-grubbing "people" who don't care, and also gives the hobby a bad name. i think the other effects can be that legitimate collectors (who have the T's best in mind) are hampered in their conservation efforts, and the laws surrounding collection and export get tougher, making it again harder for scientists and conservationists to get in and study, while of course it does nothing to stop the smugglers!

[Toran Tanner]

I am still pleased with my buy.

The only thing I am not happy about is the wild caught bit.

You go to a zoo and you see a wild caught animal caged up, they are not happy, captive bred ones are not as active as in the wild either but you can see they are not miserable.

Mary, you say keeping wild caught ones is fine and I'm sure it is but compared to keeping captive bred ones I think it is a bit cruel to capture a T from its wild habitat, ship it half way across the world to then end up in a little "box" type enclosure at mine.

Can't be helped now.

I will post some pictures later on in the week once they have arrived.

The problem I have with wild caught is, that most dealer who deal in WC go out and collect wild female because few want males and raping populations of their female makes a very large impact I don't care what anyone says. The other thing is if they are only collecting WC females for profits that means no one is getting pairs to mate to create a CB population. I have WC but I only took what was need to produce CB populations now I have no need to collect any more WC of that specie... What was needed you say? I collected 2 females and 1 male I have produced 2 egg sacks and will need no more WC to keep the CB population alive. But what happens when importers collect? they take all the can catch even males, money to be made off of dead males nowa days. ever seen framed spiders for sale?

My advice to you would be to find the one you bought a mate and breed them and flood the market so there is no market for WC anymore...

And yes a large population of WC spiders in the hobby are smuggled, if not explain how WC pokies keep making their way into the hobby or some of the asian specie's as export of them is illegal...

hope this helps somewhat, as most don't think of the individual spiders they keep but they think in terms of the speice's i.e "I do it for the good of the specie" do it for the good of the individual. works out better for the one that sits caged.

sorry I am starting to waffle

my 2 cents cheers

[Richard Shah]

I just made my equipment order from the spider shop to come on Thursday. Tomorrow I will make my order for my Brachypelma Smithi to come from the tarantula-shop on Thursday too. I cannot wait!!
I would hate to buy WC cuz I think it is wrong and I empathise with the tarantulas completely. I am looking to buy a few emperor scorpions from the spider shop but thy are all WC so I'll have to think about it!
Nice buy btw, that species looks great!

[Oli Dodds]

I am looking to buy a few emperor scorpions from the spider shop but thy are all WC so I'll have to think about it!

Most adult imperators are WC, online and in pet shops.

[Richard Shah]

Most adult imperators are WC, online and in pet shops.

Ah well that is too bad. Maybe they will not be so in ten years or what ever; my mum is never gonna let me buy even one scorpion, cuz there is no arguing with her about having one! But, I dnt mind at all, I think I'll be fine with Ice Cube!!!

[Mark Pennell]

And yes a large population of WC spiders in the hobby are smuggled, if not explain how WC pokies keep making their way into the hobby or some of the asian specie's as export of them is illegal...

Toran
I absolutely agree with what you are trying to say here, just this bit I quoted above confused me. Can you point out where you have seen these WC pokies for sell.

I have only seen captive bred ones. Certainly for the last 5-6 years, I have never seen WC adult pokies for sell in the UK. Perhaps you have seen this in the US?...

Most of the new pokies on the market have been collected by European hobbyists/traders and they generally only collect small batches and then breed them and sell.

Ok granted, is this morally correct? and do they really sex them all to keep the males, anyway this is a new ball game, but ask just about anyone who has seriously studied Pokies in the field and you will be told the same thing, it is almost impossible to find qty's of these as they are extremely hard to find and track down in the large numbers.

I do disagree with you that such large populations are smuggled, this statement just fuels the anti exotic pet lobby and rhetoric, if they are, they are not getting to the UK market.

Also not all Asian countries are close for export even the ones that say they are are not!

we must distinguish between such things very carefully, if this hobby is to survive we must all keep a high moral stance, but we must also not help fuel the half truths and in correct statements that flourish on the net, and the negative affects this has on genuine research and conservation efforts.

I don't fully agree with any sort of large import of tarantulas, I have personally seen to much destruction in the field to support this activity.

I fully appreciate your stance on this and I 100% agree with you, but as someone who has been directly affected by lies and misinformation which has not only impacted myself on a personal level, it has caused great harm to the society I have helped run for 10 years and have been a member of such for over 20. I get a bit miffed at the word smuggled cropping up the moment the word wild caught is mentioned.

Regards
Mark

[Tom Forman]

Thx Rich, I think so too, lets hope it looks as good as I think it will.

Toran, nice of you to elaborate more and I totally agree with most you have said.

I wanted to start breeding later on in my life anyway, didn't think I'd be doing it this soon but I got tempted...

I might be the first to offer cb spiderlings of this species? What a thought

One female will have to do for me however, can't afford more.

So how long do you ppl think I should let them settle before I try a breeding attempt?

[Kate Arbon]

I try and avoid wild caught spiders, but to be honest it's more out of a desire to avoid possibly bringing parasites into my collection.

I do think captive bred spiders are better, for the hobby and for the wild populations. I have heard (purely anecdotal) that captive bred spiders tend to be less easily stressed and maybe more likely to be docile than wild caught, I guess because they don't grow up constantly on edge fearing for their lives like most wild animals do.

One view I did find interesting was on the site www.eightlegs.org which seems to be down at the moment. The author commented on the CITES ban in trade as being possibly very harmful to wild tarantula populations, even more so than the pet trade. The reason for this is that even if tarantulas are not caught for the pet trade, their habitat is still being destroyed at an alarming rate. Pokies were an example used, where apparently massive areas of their Indian habitats have been disrupted. If there is a ban on removing spiders from these places, they have no escape. As the habitats go, so do the spiders.

I do think it's important to breed spiders in captivity, and any serious T keeper I think should try and help the cause by breeding or sending their males out, if they can. But blanket bans on removing Ts from endangered habitats can't be a good thing.

Anyway that's just my 2 pence

And Tom, congrats on your purchase, but I really don't think you mean what you say when you say this spider will finish your collection? The addiction isn't that easy to shake