Do zoos and similar places take advice from the BTS?

[Andrew Ferguson]

I ask this because I showed some friends of ours a picture on my phone of my juvenile B.smithi. Their daughter, Erin, who is only 5 told me she held a full size tarantula at Longleat. Her mother confirmed this.
I've seen Longleat on TV loads of times and would like to visit one day, but I would have thought they would have known that handling tarantulas, by the public and especially by very young children should be a no no. So my question is this, does large zoological places such as Longleat ask and seek advice from the BTS? I would like to think that the oldest organization of its kind has some sort of influence.

[Colin D Wilson]

I think there are a few members (myself included) on here (and other boards) that have been approached by zoos, gardens and shops concerning the care and welfare of spiders, reptiles and the like, even though there may be a keeper/handler dedicated to that particular area. Yvonne comes to mind being asked in the past to help with Big Cats because of her experience (hope you dont mind me using you as an example Yvonne ), i myself have had surplus bred stock from Chester and Twycross in the past (reptile and arachnid)
The "touchy feely" interaction events in reptile and insect houses has and always will be there. it's a little advertising thrill to get people into the different areas of the zoo etc.
The BTS has a no handling policy for the reasons stated in our own rules and regs. Other societies and zoos etc do not have this policy and at the end of the day it's up to the individual if they would like to handle an animal.
From my experience the handling is always supervised, and instruction given beforehand as to how to go about it. there's always a notice somewhere about "undertaking events at your own risk" as well so the zoo's covered insurance wise.
As far as the BTS having influence, i'm sure we do. (maybe a commitee member could post a few lines to enlighten us further here)

Colin

[James Box]

good question...imagine letting a child hold a smithi!
at the very least you're running the risk of a bad allergic reaction to the urticating hairs...
it's good on the one hand to let people know that spiders are NOT monsters...and letting someone hold one would help dispel that myth, however as with any wild animal, there are risks that are simply too great to take.
not to mention the risk to the animal as well...children are often as unpredictable as wild animals, afterall!

[Tom Forman]

my friend has been to a zoo here in england where they gave him a grammastola to hold.

I went to a zoo in Australia where they put this massive snake around my neck and then asked me if I wanted to hold a Tarantula too.

The snake wrapping itself tightly around my leg was weird enough.

I don't think snakes are the safest animals to hold either.
I have been bitten by a snake and I have seen an awful vid of some1 beeing bitten in the face by a massive pet snake.

[Kate Arbon]

I remember going to a zoo... possible Bristol zoo... when I was about ten, and holding a G. pulchra. At the time I didn't know it was that species of course, it was just a terrifying huge black spider, lol. But it was very sweet and I remember stroking its legs

[Peter Lacey]

I remember going to Sri Lanka and holding a leach! surprised I'm still alive tbh


on a more serious note, you have to put these things in perspective, the smithi probably gets held everyday, the supervision probably to a high degree, the information provided relaying sensible precautions. The rules from BTS are guidelines, not the law and they are there to protect the spider and the hobbyist, but notably not to encourage handling to those with no experience.
There are many places where visitors are encouraged to interact with nature, the London Aquarium has a ray tank which is promoted as the touch tank and they used to have an area where you could touch star fish, hermit crabs and anemone. London Zoo promoted the handling of mantids last I was there and a number of places I've been to around the world has promoted the same. IMO this promotes a little understanding of wild life and often their habitats and therefore in the right environment, is a good thing.

[Ray Hale]

As stated in other threads on this forum, the BTS has its reasons for having a non handling policy. Many zoos and animal parks do consult with us on the correct handling procedures and their correct captive care but that is often as far as it goes. As said many times the BTS is not a police force or the governing body on tarantulas. We are merely advisors and enthusiasts who have over the years built up wealth of knowledge on tarantulas. Whereas we offer advice, how someone chooses to use it is up to them.
This said a number of Zoos have now introduce non handling policies possibly not because of anything we have said or done but more likely that in these times of political correctness they dont fancy being sued by a disgruntled individual

Best wishes
Ray

[Andrew Ferguson]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Ray, I understand the BTS is not a Police Force, but I just assumed that organisations would consult for advice.
If I wanted advice on dogs, I would go to the Kennel Club of Great Britain etc etc. I guess I'm just naive

[Richard Shah]

I've been asked to hold tarantulas before by different promotions at different zoos - that is why I was surprised when I read from many sources that a T. shouldn't be handled!

[Ray Hale]

No offence meant Andrew. You are quite right we do get a lot of questions asked by different zoos and we always try to give it when we can. The reason I said we were not a police force is that many keepers do think we have some power over the hobby. It is true that we do get involved in a lot of issues but at the end of the day its down to the individual.

Your question is a valid one and I hope you did not think that I was making light of it. In an ideal world we wouldlike to be consulted but zoos etc. but often the advice we give is ignored. never the less we press on.

Ray

[Colin D Wilson]

Just to add Andrew, i don't think you're being naive at all, in fact it would be advantageous to the welfare of a lot of animals if more people asked advice from the relevant clubs, societies & organisations.

[matthew spooner]

i think when it comes to visiting zoos, many people automatically assume that as they are zoo keepers they are experts. as a club we do educational road shows around the county at school and village fetes and that sort of thing, we also go into schools during term and do lessons on arachnids and reptiles. we often get people asking for a picture with my burmese round their neck and the l.parahybane or t.blondi in their hands. this is the perfect time to educate them. now some of these people go to a zoo and say no thankyou when offered to have a snake round their neck or tarantula in their hand because they have been educated on the dangers. at a show in hythe we did last year, port lympne zoo had a display and they had a 9' boa they were draping round peoples necks, some af them were little children in their parents arms, this is just down right stupidity, i think zoo keepers should be educated to a certain level of knowledge before being allowed to deal with the exotics. we do all the arachnid and reptile stuff at Farming World in Faversham and the rare Breeds Centre in Woodchurch so these are two places we can guarantee an educated, safe and responsible experience with tarantulas and reptiles

[James Box]

funny, in this field, it seems reading this forum makes you more of an expert than whatever uni education the zoo keepers are meant to have

[Warren Beattie]

I wish it took a uni education. Might be able to get a job, then. :P

[Christian Elowsky]

I wish a degree was required to work in a zoo here in the US. Often the supervisors are educated, but the people working with the animals often are not. They're often people who love animals, but do not get paid a living wage.

I find that zoos kill and mistreat more animals than any pet shop could hope to. In that light "hobbyists" even those with advanced degrees in biology are not headed at all.

At the end of the day, it's often "It's just a 'bug'". Hopefully your experiences are much better!