First time !!!!

[Kirk McNulty]

Hi everyone, so I have purchased a MM and adult female Euathlus sp. ( chile flame ) from The spider shop. They both arrived in great condition and were eating within an hour of being put in their new enclosures. They really are great looking T's only 2" fully grown ! The plan is to breed them but as it's my first time i am nervous. I have read up all i can and feel happy with the process, I have also had some advice from someone in the pets trade who almost had some success with cobalt blues but she ate the egg sack - not the shop owner There's just some niggling questions i can't find answers to and don't know if i will - like if the T's only 2" how big will the eggs be and how many and how big will they be when they hatch. What would i feed them with 1/4 of a fruit fly ! Has anyone ever bred anything this small ? I know i'm getting ahead of myself but i have to incase it is successful first time. Sorry for ranting on but really any advice on this matter would be very helpful, thanks.

[Louise~Nichols]

Hiya Kirk,
Congrats on the cuties! I've got a couple of juves here, very sweet natured souls...and I also have some itsy bitsy slings, they really are micro!!
What do I feed them? Chopped cricket...they perch on the chunks and feed very well...saves mucking about with tiny flies, and the weeny slings can feast as much as they like before I take the food away...and they're growing really well.
I've got another micro species here too...Cyriocosmus Leetzi...beautiful, but so weeny..and to top it off, they burrow, so knowing where they are amongst the substrate is twice as hard!! LOL

Good luck anyways...I'd not worry about the size of the sac, at least you'll be able to see it...just wait for the slings to get out and disperse...everywhere!!

[Kirk McNulty]

Thanks Louise, I see what you mean about the C Leetzi there friggin tiny ! I seen a pic of C Elegans and now I want one ! they are both nice looking little spids.

[Tom Forman]

Hello Kirk,

I didn't realize they were that small. But regardless, first comes the mating, then the egg sack and if everything goes well then in several months time will you have to worry about feeding slings.

For now your main concern should be to let your T's settle in. It will take the male roughly 2 weeks to produce his sperm web but it can take longer. If you raise the humidity in the male enclosure once he has settled in, it should encourage him to make a sperm web.

Feed them well before mating. Introduce the male into the female enclosure. Be ready to save the male if something goes wrong but don't make your presence noticed by the T's. I would recommend no bright lights.

Next 2 months you should then powerfeed the female and slightly raise the temperature, this is a good time of year as temps are increasing at the moment anyway.

Once female starts acting differnt, ie looks like about to moult or hiding away in burrow stop feeding altogether.
If all goes well you might get an egg sack. I am hoping for my first one shortly myself



The smallest insect you can feed slings is springtails. I am going to raise mine on them (if I get some that is lol)

But I have seen ppl just chuck in a killed adult cricket and most slings will have a nibble, it works.

Since you are thinking this far ahead, I might as well mention that you will need alot of small containers to house the slings once they have moulted once or twice.

Good luck.

Keep us updated.

[Kirk McNulty]

Cheers for the advice Tom, I'm still collecting specimen pots and 35mm film pots from anywere i can i was hoping to buy batches of them for cheap obviosly ! but can't seem to find any manufacturers. Did you see your T make his sperm web - I heard they can tear them down before you see it, so i was hoping there would be a noticable change with palps size if i didn't see it. They are settling in great I've give them room and a few objects to attach the web to if they can't attach it to the glass, so everything seems to be going well so far.Good luck with your T's !

[Tom Forman]

yeah kirk they usually tear it down.

I didn't actually see mine making his but he left it intact. Sometimes he goes and sits on it like a hammock. His web has been there for over two weeks now...

Even if you miss him making it and he should tear it down before you spot it, you will see the remains of a web on the sides of the tank.

[Louise~Nichols]

Sorry Tom...I need to add a couple of differences of opinion to your *breeding thesis*...LOL

Firstly...sperm webs: I've had a very high proportion of males (75%)arrive with me who make sperm webs in the first 48 hours, especially when the enclosures of the male and female are kept right butt next to each other.

During any mating, I keep a very close presence to my tarantulas, just in case...and my tongs are never more than 6 inches away! Funnily enough, when tarantulas want to mate they don't really take much notice of the presence waiting above them. I've mated them in broad daylight, semi dark and with bright fluorescent lights overhead...they still mate.

Powerfeeding?? Never. Just maintain a sensible schedule of feeding on a nice variety of prey. The indications of overfed females having fertility issues is something we should all be careful of...not to mention in the wild, tarantulas produce plentiful sacs with far more difficulty obtaining prey than their captive bred counterparts.

Generally the fist signs of a female being ready to lay are digging around and heavy silking, some become aggressive as they near to their laying time...one of my Roseas becomes psychotic at 11 weeks gravidity, whilst my Pulchra merely get cantankerous and will ram at forceps in their tanks. Others simply retreat and silk themselves away from the world, which was the case with my P.Metallica female...but there is nearly always this feeling of *being fidgety* about them until they choose their final laying area.

Good luck to you Kirk, and also to you Tom!!

[Tom Forman]

thx louise,

I have only read about breeding in books so far so most of my advice is not from experience but from what I have read.

I'm sure I am doing alot of things wrong that have not been mentioned so far but it is so hard finding the right tips for breeding.

Cmon Kirk, lets get really lucky and get this to work (beginners luck does happen lol)

I found a house spider in the corner of my window today that had laid an egg sac which I am taking as a good sign :P

[Louise~Nichols]

No worries Tom...as is the way with books...time moves on, new observations are made, and so the hobby evolves...just waiting for new editions with revised information etc!

The one thing you can be sure of is, if your spiders look content with their life, are feeding keenly and looking well then you aren't getting that much wrong. Breeding is again a journey of knowledge gathering...sometimes being warm doesn't help the female to lay...ie, my G.Pulchra and G.Rosea females have gone into a cool room now to get the laying going...today, both girls have begun webbing a bowl shaped area in different areas of their homes...so I know I've got stress ahead! LOL (On a different score, my P.Metallica had to be heated right up to get a sac out of her, and other spids didn't care at all providing they had a pre-cool of at least 4 weeks).

Breeding tips you need?? That's a simple one, just ask!! There are plenty of us who breed spiders here, and who will happily share experiences.

[Kirk McNulty]

Ok i have had the chile flames in their new enviroments since wednesday now, they have both eaten and drank and seem to be settled in nicely as far as i can see. There is no evidence that the male has produced a sperm web ( i don't think he has ) but the palps look pretty large, the female has refused the last hopper i put in - she hasnt eaten loads but looks healthy. I had already designed the females tank so i can put a perspecs devider in, so today i put the devider in about 6 o'clock and put the male in one side. The male seemed very happy and started exploring and within a minute he was lowering his body to the floor and started shaking quite fast and repeated this 15-20 times, i tried going in low with tongs on the female after no reaction to the males shaking and she just closed up a little she was not interested one bit in the male or receptive to the tongs trick. The one thing i never saw was any drumming from the male, i left the devider in and the male eventualy left the top of his half of the tank in what seemed like boredom. It was very interesting to watch but doesnt leave me feeling confident, will the female ever be receptive - i dont know when she moulted last but she looks fresh and very colourful. So all in all not much of a result but i thought i'd share what happened.

[Colin D Wilson]

Just to add a little agreement to lou's comments, my Grammostolas have now moved into my bedroom which is considerably cooler that the little room they were in. I've dampened one corner and they've gone all broody....this seems to be the best way i've found to encourage them to start

[Louise~Nichols]

Just to add a little agreement to lou's comments, my Grammostolas have now moved into my bedroom which is considerably cooler that the little room they were in. I've dampened one corner and they've gone all broody....this seems to be the best way i've found to encourage them to start

Yup, it works a treat doesn't it?!

Kirk...with regards to your E. Sp Red...I could have sworn that they get up to 10cm (4 inches) as adult...so 2 inches sounds small for your female. Maybe that's a reason she'd not be looking to mate? My juves/subs here are comfortably 2 inches now, and about to moult, so it'll be interesting to see how much bigger they are afterwards.
Anyways...check Lee's site again...the description for the E.Sp Red will tell you size etc.

http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insec...oducts_id=1421

[Kirk McNulty]

Louise i think you are right it does say on Lee's site that as adults they reach 4" or 10cm. My male is no doubt mature he is only 5cm if he is lucky and the female is not much bigger Thank you for bringing it to my attention, sadly my first breeding project is over before it began. I think I'll leave it to the professionals. Does anyone need a MM ? P.S i do appreciate the subtleness of your comments. cheers.

[Colin D Wilson]

Dont let it deflate you Kirk, sometimes it takes a few introductions

He was obviousely starting the courting ritual by shaking, in some species this is the first step and if the female shows interest (sometimes by slapping her feet a little) he will go into the drumming routine as he feels she is receptive.
Females CAN be ready to breed when quite young (sometimes a couple of moults away from fully grown in some species), this shaking "courting" from the male (and his close proximity) could have switched on her moulting cycle.

Leave the two tanks close to each other if you can, wait a couple of days and try again. Try to feed her in between this time, if she doesn't take it she MAY well be up for a moult. (i've heard that females can be spurred into moult by the presence of a mature "ready" male to highly increase the fertility chance...makes sense to me)
When/if she does then you can start again afresh.

*edit* One question thats just struck....are you measuring the body length or the leg span Kirk.

[Louise~Nichols]

Kirk, no worries matey...but as Colin says...is that 5cm/2 inch legspan you are measuring or is it a 5cm/2 inch body length??
From a discussion I saw on Arachnophiles forum, Euathlus are supposedly slow growing...can't vouch for that bit yet, I'm waiting to see what size difference there is after the 2 inch youngsters moult here!!
Also...does your little fella have his tibial spurs now?

You could try putting the male and female in together without the divider...if I was a spider I'd get bored if someone gave me *eye candy* and then shoved a wall in the way! hehehe

Finally....don't you dare give up and get disheartened, that's an order, (yeah, I'm bossy lol)...no quitting round here, so, shoulders back, chin up and roll up yer sleeves, there's spiders to breed...and if it ain't gonna be that pair for a while, find some more!!
It's a learning process everyday for everybody...there's no *professionals vs amateurs* here, just a heapload of us happy spider owners/addicts/lifelong learners.