First time breeding..advice please.

[Oli Dodds]

I have to agree with Oli's original post. What I did find off putting was the tone towards Richard. No one likes being told off and Richard was well and truly scolded.
We want to keep the forum a friendly place and we all want to receive the best and accurate advice we can get or give. I can see why Oli was frustrated and hence his tone, but Oli, maybe a toned down telling off followed by a PM may have been the way to go. I feel if I was on the receiving end I would appreciate a reply like that.
Maybe I just want a happy smiley world.

And Richard, just put this down to a valuable lesson learned. Move on and just take note of what some of the more experienced members of the BTS have advised.

Thankyou Andrew. Now that its 'the day after' and heads have cooled, i appreciate that my manner and tone were not appropriate. However, ive read too many stories like this and seen too much 'advice' given as 'fact' to newcomers, and then spiders suffering because of it.
Just letting off a little steam i guess,,, i cant be nice all the time you know! Then there wouldnt be anybody for you guys to love to hate
Richard, I apologise for the harsh response submitted by myself, however, I would like you to have a good hard think before getting into breeding any furthur. If you need any advice, send a pm to the people with years of experiance breeding, as stated in my original post- they will be more then happy to help you out.

[Richard Groves]

Thankyou Andrew. Now that its 'the day after' and heads have cooled, i appreciate that my manner and tone were not appropriate. However, ive read too many stories like this and seen too much 'advice' given as 'fact' to newcomers, and then spiders suffering because of it.
Just letting off a little steam i guess,,, i cant be nice all the time you know! Then there wouldnt be anybody for you guys to love to hate
Richard, I apologise for the harsh response submitted by myself, however, I would like you to have a good hard think before getting into breeding any furthur. If you need any advice, send a pm to the people with years of experiance breeding, as stated in my original post- they will be more then happy to help you out.

Apology accepted and I apologise back in return. You could have a been a little less harsh towards me, but I appreciate you have a passion for these creatures.

Yes, I was a little hasty and over excited.

I don't deny that part of me was a little naive and even though I had read that breeding was hard, thought that it would be as simple as putting A and B together. Lesson learned and understood. It won't be done again.

If anything though, I wasn't interested in breeding at first. Seeing this event first hand has really given me the urge to try it out. I do have quite a few adult female Brachy's and Grammostolas so I'll take your advice and start with one of these next time. I've set up a spreadsheet to keep track of important details such as when the last shed was etc. I have none suitable for mating at the moment as all are due a shed within the next 2 - 5 months, but will use that time wisely.

[Oli Dodds]

I don't deny that part of me was a little naive and even though I had read that breeding was hard, thought that it would be as simple as putting A and B together. Lesson learned and understood. It won't be done again.

EXCELLENT. This is exactly what we aim to do on these forums. Teach others, but also, to improve our own knowledge. Especially as each day something new and unknown is discovered about these creatures.

If anything though, I wasn't interested in breeding at first.

I had guessed that by the original post

Seeing this event first hand has really given me the urge to try it out.

And good luck trying, just make sure you absorb all the information you can in the coming months before giving it another shot. You should be oozing knowledge before your next attempt
Good luck and remember- have fun doing it!

[Chris Sainsbury]

Ok... By your initial post i knew you were not ready at all to begin breeding anything... You should never get into things like this without a hell of a lot of research.

To me, his initial post is saying that he is looking for advise on breeding a species of tarantula and nothing more. It tells me nothing about if he is `ready´or not. Besides who am I to even say who is ready or not to begin trying to breed tarantulas Is there a rule book that I don't know off?

1) Im highly doubting the male was mature.

Why? did you see it?

2) Was foolish trying to mate them anyway, you should have waited for the female to moult out first.

Myth. I am baseing this on about 6-7 good eggsacs where the female was mated over 7 months after a moult. I can't comment on C. cyaneopubesens as I have never mated or attemped to mate this species. What do you base this on?

4) You should have stayed and overviewed the situation for at least 30 mins and if nothing happened, removed the male.

Is this in regards to this species or all tarantula species? If in regards to this species, is this from your own C. cyaneopubesens breeding sucesses and failures? If in regards to all species let me just say there are some species that you could sit in front your spider case for days on end and nothing will happen, then just as you turn you head away you miss it. I would never go by such a rule.

What a shame to waste a spider like that. My advice to you: Dont ever try to breed any creature ever again without lots of research into it. And not just the type of animal, the species as well.

Not a waste IMO. The owner has seen how it can go wrong so now can work on maybe a different course of action (trial and error). I am told and I have read that females of this species are almost always very aggressive towards males, and experinced breeders lose just as many males to them as anyone else. But that is thing with tarantula breeding, it is NOT an exact science and you have to accept these losses.
At the end of the day if a female is going to attack rather than mate then 90% of the time there is jack poo you can do to pervent it and you have to rely on the males quick retret reactions.
I do agree in a little research before you buy a new spider but, I think most buys at shows are impulse buys and I think we spider keepers are all guilty of this from time to time. Buy now learn about it later.

And more free advice... start out breeding easy slow movers such as brachys/grammys.

I think you would be suprised if I told you that your easy slow moving Brachys and Grammys can be the most aggressive towards the males of their species and very often end up with male dinner instead of a successful mating. IMHO It really does NOT matter what species you try first when you get into the breeding side of the hobby.

The reason im ranting is because the death of a living creature by other peoples animosity to have an ounce of patience to take the time to properly divulge in reading as much information possible on the subject.

Ok, so now I have read alot of information on breeding tarantulas, and it seems the general view is that if a female drums to a male it is normally a good sign that she is up for mating. Now apply this to what was said here:-

This evening I caught the female drumming to the male.

At this point I would have done exactly the same and released the male into the females tank. If he gets eaten well that is the risk you take but as the signs look good then it is much more of a waste not to try them IMHO.

Also the attitude of 'oh well if it dies its only a male...' that some people have taken up on the boards sickens me also. So what if it doesnt have long left to live? Doesnt mean you need to risk shortening its life unnecessarily.

Males I have are never if I can help it, left to die without trying to be mated. It is a pain if they get eaten without being mated but that is how it goes if you can't accept this then you should never get into the breeding side of the hobby. I have also had males die in the post before now when they have been sent abroad, and have also recieved a number of dead males in the post and in many of the cases I expect that, if they had not been sent they would have lived longer.....only then they would have had NO chance of mateing with a female at all. These are the risks you take. No offence to male tarantulas but if you can't get a shot at breeding you are no use to me except as a speciem to put in alcohol for some taxonomist to use (I have been know to do this also but again I'm not sorry for it ).

Doesnt mean you need to risk shortening its life unnecessarily. Want me to kill your Grandpa by putting him with 2 young bondage lesbians and a strap-on?? Same concept in my eyes...

Chalk and cheese but I have to say if I was his Grandpa I would think this a great way to go out!

Hope this clears my opinion up a little.

Oh and just to answer one of the original questions:-
Yes male tarantulas will sometimes attack the females. I have had this happen twice and on one occasion the female died as a result. I doesn't happen very often though at least to me it doesn't.

All the best
Chris

[Oli Dodds]

Chris, what i said is basics, obviously things are a little different from species to species. For example, i left my yamia sp M+F together for 2 weeks...
If you think trying to breed things such as heteroscodra on your first go is wise, then you are entitled to your opinion, but i would call you an idiot. And thats my opinion on the matter...
Im not getting into a flame war with you again, so lets calm down a little shall we? lol...

[jason holland]

i dont want to get into this... but looking at it all from an outsiders point of view, everyone on here involved in this "discussion" all have good and bad points. yes everyone is entitled to there opinion, but some of the responses on here are just going to lead to further arguments and possibly losses in friendships.
at the end of the day practice makes perfect... although if a life is involved that point might not sound as good as it could....
to be honest i think that this thread should be locked... not because its pointless.... but because its just turning into (and dont get me wrong....) an argument on who is right or wrong.
no one can get things right first time. im sure everyone on here at some point has done something wrong in this hobby, even if you cant think of one... im sure you have. knowledge is power... and you dont get knowledge by getting everything right first time.
some responses on here have (in my opinion) beed a tad harsh but in some instanes true. i can see everyones points, and all parties just need to stop while there ahead and take this as ... like i think was said before... a learning curve.

cant we all just get along

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi

Chris, what i said is basics, obviously things are a little different from species to species. For example, i left my yamia sp M+F together for 2 weeks...

If nit-picking is disagreeing with many of the points you made then sorry that my own oppinion is classed as nit-picking when I thought it was just as valid as yours.

If you think trying to breed things such as heteroscodra on your first go is wise, then you are entitled to your opinion, but i would call you an idiot

Still see no problem with that either and I bet the only line of reasons why you would be againts it is because, they tend to be a little fiesty and are maybe a little faster than other spiders. Am I right?
I have only had two successful matings/breedings from this species and on both times they were no problem at all. My reactions to a fast spider are no different from anyone elses I would imagine, and I like to think common sence is something even a `beginer breeder´ has. As it happens I think my first ever mating attempt was with a P.murinus (RCF) and no problems arose from it. Us idiots must just be lucky I suppose.

Im not getting into a flame war with you again, so lets calm down a little shall we? lol...

Never have been in a flame war with you and not in one with you now. Just putting my oppinion over just like you. Think what the problem is, is that it differs from yours.

@jason holland
I shouldn't worry bud, noone is falling out it is JUST a discussion nothing more. If we all thought the same or were scared to think different then it would be a most boreing life.

All the best
Chris

[Colin D Wilson]

I agree Jason

And now people have had their say.....

Thread Edited for continuity and Closed