P. metallica parasite help

[DianeDFisher]

This is the 2nd P. metallica I have been unfortunate enough to own with this same "condition". The other was a 1 inch sling and passed away within weeks of purchase. This one has been owned for 8 months and it took that long to finally molt. I knew something was wrong but had no idea what. A worm-like parasite was observed on the exuvia and a definite "wound" was apparent on it as well. The parasite was not eradicated and the wound is now visually apparent and getting worse. Anyone with experience in treating external parasites on (and in this case, burrowed IN) a tarantula? I'd like to try a small quantity of "no pest strip" in the cage but have no idea how much and for how long or would I be better swabbing with Ivermectin or Trichlorfon? The T is going to die without intervention. If anyone has tried any of this I'd really appreciate the feedback. Pics of the "wound" attached. Di

[matthew spooner]

really sorry to hear about your bad luck diane. ive never come across this problem before but some people i know have had problems with nematodes, which they managed to cure using periods of intense heat. i dont know if this is a possibility with this particular parasite or if this species of T would tolerate it, maybe someone else will be able to help you out more with this one.

[Colin D Wilson]

Using Ivermectin or Trichlorfon (both insectacide components) may well be detramental to the health of the tarantula.

A couple of options available would be.......
1) go to the vets and see if he's prepared (and confident enough) to put the spider under a mild anesthetic and treat the problem physically.
2) try a home idea i've seen successful in the past for removing external parasites from arachnids (patience and care should be first and foremost).
Two cricket tubs are needed, one needs to have a hole cut into it slightly bigger than the area you need to work on (ie the parasite)
the spider is caught in this tub and cooled to slow it down sufficiently to be able to take of the lid and place the other cricket tub inside the first, the spider is then carefully pressed down and "caught" between the two tubs. a lot of trial and error is needed to get the required area in the "hole" of the lower tub and to make sure the legs/palps are not awquardly placed, when this position is obtained then enough pressure to stop the spider moving is applied. (the two tubs can be taped together although you should have a second person for this)
The tub can then be turned over enabling a full inspection and removal if possible (i.e. if the removal is not going to cause excessive fluid loss and cause the death of the spider anyway).

As stated, i've seen this be successful, i don't reccommend cooling a spider virtually to the point of immobility but positioning the spider is easier.

[DianeDFisher]

Poecilotheria surgery

Thanks, Colin. Somehow I just knew that would be the choosen course.
I think if it were almost any of my other T's I would already have cooled it and tried to pull whatever it is out and sealed the wound with liquid bandage but the thought of loosing a 2nd P. met is crushing. What you described is very thought provoking, especially since I have to do this solo. I was hoping to keep surgical intervention as my last alternative. Anyone think I may kill the parasite and not the T, if I cauterized the area with silver nitrate? I really appreciate your help with this. Di

[Phil Rea]

That doesn't look to me like an external parasite, as it doesn't appear as if there's anything on the wound. It looks like it could be an internal parasite which is a whole new ballgame. I don't think there's any treatment for that. It looks as if whatever's in there could be burrowing outwards and it doesn't look good

In the few cases that I am familiar with, the parasite has emerged from the spider's abdomen, unfortunately causing the immediate death of the spider.

If you pierce the abdomen to attempt removal then I would imagine that you will lose the spider, either by loss of haemolymph, or by mechanical forced removal of any parasite (which would have to be fairly large). It would be difficult if not impossible to seal a hole that size in time to save the spider too I would think.

If it's not a parasite, and is a flaw in the spider's abdomen causing it to bulge due to the internal pressure, then that spot is likely to be very susceptible to impacts or rubbing and could fail, again causing loss of haemolymph.

Is the spider wild caught? If not, then I would think that an internal parasite of that nature is fairly unlikely.

By the way, was the worm you saw segmented, and what size was it?

Good luck Diane.

[DianeDFisher]

At 4 X 10 magnification under the scope it just looked like a clear worm. the "head" of the worm would rear up (similar to the way a silk worm flails around) as if the "body" was attached to the slide. I have no history on the spider itself. I purchased it from an unknown collector last February. I have no experience with parasites, only pictures from a book I have that I use for some herps I keep, but i didn't see any segments-it appeared smooth-bodied. I sure hate to loose this T, but from the look of things I will if I don't intervene someway. I agree with your synopsis: if it is internal and has worked it's way out intervention will be futile and I will loose the T anyway. Di

[Bruce Maclean]

This is the 2nd P. metallica I have been unfortunate enough to own with this same "condition". The other was a 1 inch sling and passed away within weeks of purchase. This one has been owned for 8 months and it took that long to finally molt. I knew something was wrong but had no idea what. A worm-like parasite was observed on the exuvia and a definite "wound" was apparent on it as well. The parasite was not eradicated and the wound is now visually apparent and getting worse. Anyone with experience in treating external parasites on (and in this case, burrowed IN) a tarantula? I'd like to try a small quantity of "no pest strip" in the cage but have no idea how much and for how long or would I be better swabbing with Ivermectin or Trichlorfon? The T is going to die without intervention. If anyone has tried any of this I'd really appreciate the feedback. Pics of the "wound" attached. Di

Hi Diane,

If it is from the inside going out, I would have to agree that the outlook is very poor. However, doing something about it physically under anaesthetic would be the best option I feel, so I would recommend getting it to an interested vet - there are a few of us around! The method described by Colin would probably involve more shock to the tarantula, so proper anaesthesia would be better if possible.

Good luck with it.

Best wishes,

Bruce.

[Guy Tansley]

Hi Diane,

IMO this looks like a phorid fly problem (the pic is quite bad so I may be wrong). In the past, I've observed phorid fly larvae feeding off open wounds on live tarantulas (see pic attached showing larvae clustered around the recently autotomised leg section).

There is a chance that, in your case, the larva began to feed on the vulnerable tarantula after it had moulted and therefore gained access. Do you have a problem with phorid flies at all?

[Colin D Wilson]

That doesn't look to me like an external parasite, as it doesn't appear as if there's anything on the wound. It looks like it could be an internal parasite which is a whole new ballgame.

I have to agree now i'm looking on a full size monitor screen instead of a PDA. In which case you may want to disregard my previous post.

Prognosis doesn't look good, but best of luck Diane

Colin

[Colin D Wilson]

The method described by Colin would probably involve more shock to the tarantula, so proper anaesthesia would be better if possible.

Precisely why option number 1 was a trip to the vets Bruce, professional help always the best option.
You and Diane have no home locations noted (top right of posts) would it be an idea to contact each other via PM to see if you're within reasonable travelling distance from each other to see if you could help out mate???

[DianeDFisher]

Phorid flies?

Hi Diane,

IMO this looks like a phorid fly problem (the pic is quite bad so I may be wrong). In the past, I've observed phorid fly larvae feeding off open wounds on live tarantulas (see pic attached showing larvae clustered around the recently autotomised leg section).

There is a chance that, in your case, the larva began to feed on the vulnerable tarantula after it had moulted and therefore gained access. Do you have a problem with phorid flies at all?

I have phorid flies in some of my containers which are all kept together in the spider cabinet, but not really in this particular container. I will try to get some better photos. It's hard through the acrylic container and this spider is generally very reclusive and rarely climbs the acrylic the way it was yesterday. Generally stays on the cork bark.
Di

[Mark Pennell]

Can't see if any one has mentioned this before in the previous threads but to me that looks just like a heat mat burn.

Cheers
Mark

[DianeDFisher]

No heat mat. I use a ceramic emitter and it's hanging above the top shelf. P. metallica is on the 2nd shelf. I guess I'll just treat it a wound, perhaps seal it and hope for the best. Thanks everyone. Di

[Christian Elowsky]

This discussion is also occurring on the ATS site:

http://www.atshq.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19745

Anyone wanna guess she might have a local parasite?

[DianeDFisher]

Updated photo: Side view of the wound

This photo was the best I could get from the T tonight, but you can see the "thing" that is protruding from the sore. I don't know that it will help.
Di