Confused about Haplopelmas

[Samantha Lewanewsky]

Yes, another thread about haplopelmas! lol

Just wondering really what all the described species are at the moment, got myself confused again since buying a Haplopelma vonwirthi at kempton and now discovered it doesn't technically exist.
Read somewhere that '"Haplopelma vonwirthi" as a name and description is basically erased from history'.
And then I read on a Von Wirth and Striffler document 10 species, but in the BTS gallery there were only 7. It was missing robustum, salangense and hunwenum.
So does that mean the BTS gallery isn't up to date, or that robustum, salangense and hunwenum are just different colour forms of other haplopelma species and been given different names?

And if my new spider isn't a vonwirthi, what is it?

My head hurts from all this thinking, can someone explain the Haplopelma genus to me as it is currently?

Cheers
Samantha

[Matthew Baines]

I just narrowed my haplopelma sp vietnam down to being vonwirthi so you might have one of those. I have a thread on here with pictures if it helps http://www.thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4286

[Mark Pennell]

Yes, another thread about haplopelmas! lol

Just wondering really what all the described species are at the moment, got myself confused again since buying a Haplopelma vonwirthi at kempton and now discovered it doesn't technically exist.
Read somewhere that '"Haplopelma vonwirthi" as a name and description is basically erased from history'.
And then I read on a Von Wirth and Striffler document 10 species, but in the BTS gallery there were only 7. It was missing robustum, salangense and hunwenum.
So does that mean the BTS gallery isn't up to date, or that robustum, salangense and hunwenum are just different colour forms of other haplopelma species and been given different names?

And if my new spider isn't a vonwirthi, what is it?

My head hurts from all this thinking, can someone explain the Haplopelma genus to me as it is currently?

Cheers
Samantha

Samantha
The BTS gallery list is for species in culture so some may be missing.

check out this link for the current sp list, this may not be up to date as Boris and Volker have recently made some changes - I think..

http://www.research.amnh.org/entomology/spiders/catalog/THERAPHOSIDAE.html

Cheers
Mark

[Samantha Lewanewsky]

Thanks Mark

Your spiders look almost identical to my vonwirthi, Matthew.

[Matthew Baines]

Cool hope that helps because it almost confirms my suspition about there species now. I should hopefully have an eggs sac off the female soon.

[Colin D Wilson]

Have emailed Norman Platnick asking when the new version of the World Spider Catalogue will be available and if possible to return my email with a (sneak preview) list of the Haplopelma species that will appear.

Will update as and when info available.

[Samantha Lewanewsky]

Ooh yay, thanks Colin!! Who's Norman Platnick?

You must be really excited Matthew, will you be selling the spiderlings? My adult female looks a bit like a dull brown, less stripey albostriatum. Hoping to get an albostriatum next, so I'll be able to compare the two close up.

[Matthew Baines]

You must be really excited Matthew, will you be selling the spiderlings?

I haven 't thought about what i will do with the slings yet as i dont want to get my hopes up just to be heart broken if it doesn't happen . First ever breeding for me so its mainly a learning exercise and any fruits from my labour will be a bonus. I will keep you posted!

[Phil Rea]

Yes, Haplopelma vonwirthi Schmidt, 2005 is still a valid species.

See here for details

[Colin D Wilson]

Reply from Norman

i mentioned about the difference between our gallery and Boris' and Volkers documented species

"Hello, Colin, the catalog is updated twice a year, and the next update
should get posted on the web sometime in January. A recent paper by Zhu &
Zhang has placed Haplopelma huwenum as a synonym of H. schmidti -- perhaps
that helps account for the total? Cheers, Norm"

[Samantha Lewanewsky]

Cheers Colin!

Thanks for the link Phil!
So if vonwirthi is still a valid species, then what about H.sp 'vietnam'? Is that the same as vonwirthi? Or has Matthew been sold a miss-identified Haplopelma?

[Martin Huber]

Hi,

"Hello, Colin, the catalog is updated twice a year, and the next update
should get posted on the web sometime in January. A recent paper by Zhu &
Zhang has placed Haplopelma huwenum as a synonym of H. schmidti -- perhaps
that helps account for the total? Cheers, Norm"

BTW, he is talking about this paper:

• ZHU, M.-S. & R. ZHANG (200: Revision of the theraphosid spiders from China (Araneae: Mygalomorphae). The Journal of Arachnology 36: 425-447.

BTW2: Zhu & Zhang haven't researched all relevant holotypes for this synonymysation.

But there was someone before them, who didn't examine the holotypes and mentioned that he believes it to be one species:

• PETERS, H.-J. (1999): Selenocosmia huwena WANG, PENG & XIE, 1993 und ihre Verwendung in der Spinnengiftforschung. Tarantulas of the World 32: 13-17.

same goes for Schmidt:

• SCHMIDT, G. (2003): Die Vogelspinnen. Westarp Wissenschaften, Hohenwarsleben.

all the best,
Martin

[Matthew Baines]

I wouldn't say it was mis identified . I just wasn't identified full stop.

[Phil Rea]

Cheers Colin!

Thanks for the link Phil!
So if vonwirthi is still a valid species, then what about H.sp 'vietnam'? Is that the same as vonwirthi? Or has Matthew been sold a miss-identified Haplopelma?

No problems

Haplopelma sp 'Vietnam', is an unidentified species of Haplopelma. Either it differs from the named species within the genus, or it has never been compared with them.

The sp. 'Vietnam' part is to differentiate it from other species in the genus, and to keep captive bred populations together for breeding purposes, so that there is no risk of hybridisation.

An actual identified species always has a second part to the name (the specific epithet), so for example Haplopelma lividum is identified to species, but Haplopelma sp. 'Vietnam' has only been identified to genus.

[Colin D Wilson]

Hi,


BTW, he is talking about this paper:
ZHU, M.-S. & R. ZHANG (200: Revision of the theraphosid spiders from China (Araneae: Mygalomorphae). The Journal of Arachnology 36: 425-447.
BTW2: Zhu & Zhang haven't researched all relevant holotypes for this synonymysation.


But there was someone before them, who didn't examine the holotypes and mentioned that he believes it to be one species:
PETERS, H.-J. (1999): Selenocosmia huwena WANG, PENG & XIE, 1993 und ihre Verwendung in der Spinnengiftforschung. Tarantulas of the World 32: 13-17.
same goes for Schmidt:
SCHMIDT, G. (2003): Die Vogelspinnen. Westarp Wissenschaften, Hohenwarsleben.
all the best,

Martin

Cheers for that Martin,

I asked Norman when the next revision of the WSC was, he just threw the other info in as an extra as i asked if he could give me an up to date species list