Psalmopeus ID?

[Taki Tsonis]

This was sold as a P cambridgei and has now matured as a male. To me it looks way too much like an irminia. I know these 2 species have very similar looking males, but is there any definitive distinguishing feature?


If anything it also looks a bit darker than these pics as well..

Unfortunately I don't have details of what it looked like while it was immature.

[mary walters]

Thats an irminia Taki, look at the orange flashes on his feet, good luck.

[Ray Gabriel]

Could be a hybrid if sold as P. cambridgei, Richard has our hybrid male matured yet?

Ray

[Taki Tsonis]

Thanks Mary, I was told by someone that the P cambridgei males also have the flashes but having looked into it now it was wrong info.
p.s. I put him together with my irminia female and she immediately responded very well to him and they were all over her terrarium while he cautiously avoided her while tapping. After about an hour of him trying to mate her they disappeared behind some heavy leaves and when I saw them again she was busy eating him!!!!
Here's hoping the little guy didn't go in vain...

[mary walters]

Oh no Taki, I hope he did the job too.

We mated one of our girls up Sunday with a male I bought at Newark. The rest will have to wait til xmas hols.

Oh yeah, looks like one of the girls is webbing up for sac 3 this mating, as she ate sac 2 it will probably be pulled.

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi

I was told by someone that the P cambridgei males also have the flashes but having looked into it now it was wrong info.

Are you sure that info is wrong? I only ask because every mature P.cambridgei male I have had, have had redish longitudinal flashes on the tarsus and metatarsus. In P. irminia however the flashes have been more orangey in colour.
That to me looks more or less typical for a male P. irminia except that it looks either to have been very recently misted or it has incounterd some slight problems in its matureing moult, as the legs look to me as if it has suffered a bit of a "wet" moult.
As for the overall colouration, well I have always found that males of this genus are some of the hardest to photograph and get accurate colouration in the photos. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that because of their long setea with the grayish tips on the legs it reflects the flash or any light so much that makes them look much grayer than they are, although they do gray out somewhat with age.
P. cambridgei males on the other hand tend to be more a greenish brown in colouration and normally a fair bit bigger.
No reason to think you have a hybrid as even the females of P. cambridgei and P. irminia are often mistaken for each other fro what I read on various spider forums. Saying that though I have also heard unconfirmed stories float about that both species in the hobby have been tainted by each other somewhere down the line, but what truth to these stories there is I can't say, but it wouldn't suprise me at all (not that this really matters INHO).

cheers
Chris

[James Box]

i read of an experiment (can't remember the scientist's name, it's in Sam Marshall's Taranatulas and Other Arachnids) where cambridgei and irminia were hybridised, and apparently the young were infertile...and less attractive then the parents.
if this is the case, hopefully this genus produces infertile hybrids, which would make things easier!

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi James

I'm pretty sure any offspring in a cross with these two species would be fertile in much the same way as the offspring from a Poecilotheria cross species breeding are.

cheers
Chris

[James Box]

you're probably right, just what i read. will try to get an exact quote tomorrow if i remember the book
that being said, it was years ago...and how do you prove the infertility of every spiderling? that would be a heck of an undertaking!

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi James

I think I know the passage you mean, where it speaks of an experimint by Arthur Bordes. If the link works you should find it here:-

http://books.google.com/books?id=bSb-xLnEdYoC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Arthur+Bordes&source=web&ots=LHEjuc5W1k&sig=YCJ8wesovhUDg73I6gBjDoFtNLM&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA55,M1

It is hard to comment on this as I think you would have to read the entire article if there is one? What is strange about the remark though is that the book tells of the experiment taking place in the 1970s, but P. irminia was only described in 1994 and according to the paper was first discoverd in March 1991! So was it a P. cambridgei X P. irminia cross in the first place?

Cheers
Chris

[James Box]

that's the one, Chris!
that would cast doubt on the experiment, if the species wasn't described yet!
unless he did the experiment with it listed as Psalmopoeus sp.
this is rather odd though! i'm rather interested in reading the article as well.
i may try and email Samuel Marshall about it when i've a minute, if i can!

[Chris Sainsbury]

Sure it is quite possible of course it was done before the species was described after all there are I think a couple of other articles on this species before it was described like this one:-

Verdez, J.-M. 1993.
Fiche d'élevage MYG22: PSALMOPOEUS sp. ("irminia").
Arachnides 19.

and I think there is also a German one about the keeping and breeding in 1994.
Only in the book the experimints are said to have been done in the 1970s which could mean up to almost 20 years before the species was even discoverd!
Let us know if you get any word from Mr. (or should that be Dr.?) Marshall on this as I too would be interested.
Cheers
Chris

[James Box]

i shall attempt to find a contact email when i have some time
interesting question for sure...
must be something about this Arthur Bourdes chap as well

[Paul Claven]

Thanks Mary, I was told by someone that the P cambridgei males also have the flashes but having looked into it now it was wrong info.
p.s. I put him together with my irminia female and she immediately responded very well to him and they were all over her terrarium while he cautiously avoided her while tapping. After about an hour of him trying to mate her they disappeared behind some heavy leaves and when I saw them again she was busy eating him!!!!
Here's hoping the little guy didn't go in vain...

...and I had to read this here...? RIP my boy...

[Taki Tsonis]

Sorry Paul, I did try to phone you....