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**Chris Sainsbury** · 31-12-08, 12:21 AM

I'm sure Chris wants to no more appear a troll than I wish to appear a fwuffy bunny wuvving vegetarian PETA member

If having a differet point of view is classed as appearing as a troll then I don't really want to disscuss anything on this or any other board come to that.
cheers
Chris

**Damien** · 31-12-08, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Anita Pile View Post

I think one thing we can probably all agree on is that this could go for ever, and because of people's differing opinions there will never be a right or a wrong answer.

I feel I have said all I can, all I would be doing is repeating or rephrasing my views.

I'm sure Chris wants to no more appear a troll than I wish to appear a fwuffy bunny wuvving vegetarian PETA member.

How can you call him a troll when he has done more for the hobby than you can ever do.!!

Beats me really

common sense pre-vails in the end!

**Chris Sainsbury** · 31-12-08, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by Damien View Post

How can you call him a troll when he has done more for the hobby than you can ever do.!!

Beats me really

common sense pre-vails in the end!

Yep I have anoyed and got on a good few peoples nerves (even if they sometimes wont admit it) in the relative short time I have been in this hobby. Lucky I am fairly thick skinned....or should that just be thick?

**Anita Pile** · 31-12-08, 08:16 AM

Could I just quickly point out that at no time have I disputed Chris' knowledge of arachnids and the like and his contribution to the hobby.

I just felt that what was a minor thread was being blown out of proportion.

If you read back, at no point did I call Chris a troll, I merely meant that some people could perceive some of the comments he was coming out with as inflammatory (as in 'trolling' or' don't feed the trolls', not as in a Scandinavian character that sits under bridges waiting for goats). Just as some people could begin to view me as an extreme animal rights activist if I continued to brow beat them with my views.

I reiterate, there are no wrong or right answers to this, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

**Ray Hale** · 31-12-08, 08:57 AM

could I just say that Chris annoys me and I admit it.......sorry couldnt resist that one mate

.Hope to see you soon.

Ray H

**Chris Sainsbury** · 31-12-08, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Ray Hale View Post

could I just say that Chris annoys me and I admit it.......sorry couldnt resist that one mate

.Hope to see you soon.

Ray H

hehehehe I do my best you know that.

**James Box** · 31-12-08, 11:21 AM

yep i've noticed you being a right pain in the backside a few times Chris

but we need to have different opinions debated and for people to take less popular sides.

oddly, i agree with Chris though...it's hard to admit, but our love of some animals and then willingness to feed other animals to them (or to ourselves) is very arbitrary...
i am against the "dog fight" scenario, with youtube videos of this animal vs that, because i think it's needless and only for fairly sick human entertainment...boxing is different, it's not often lethal! it happens, but that is not what the sport is about. but dogfighting or cockfighting...they are illegal now in some countries, thankfully, maybe one day in all.
but as for food...that's one that a keeper would have to reconcile themselves with. i feel guilty, as i've said before, about using crickets, but it is necessary. just the way the world is.

**Craig Mackay** · 31-12-08, 03:11 PM

First off, I'd like to point out that to the best of my knowledge Chris isn't a troll and a good lively debate is always welcomed

I think you may have misunderstood me though Chris. I don't have a problem with spiders been seen as a food source. I'll quite happily tuck into all sorts of meat so it'd be hypocritical of me to say that one kind of animal is a good source of food and others shouldn't be used. I have heard that Tarantula is nice and would certainly try it if the opportunity presented itself.

You said that if you had a snake which ate tarantula's then thats what it would get. If you knew it would thrive just as well on dead mice would you still take that risk knowing that the potential was there for the spider to cause your snake harm? Yes, I'm sure the snake would enjoy it if it didn't get hurt but if a mouse would do the same job then why bother with the risk & expense If the snake was a tarantula which fed on other tarantula's would you risk it when crickets would do the same job? If you choose to keep an animal then it's health and safety should be priority number one. You said you'd remove the spiders fangs just like removing a locusts back legs. As far as I'm aware locusts legs have evolved to detach when caught with little or no discomfort. I'm sure this isn't the case with Tarantula fangs.

As for the cockroach example it's a little (if only very little) different as cockroaches are already established as a nutritious and safe livefood. Yes people do keep them as pets. If you choose to you can keep crickets as pets but they're always going to be seen as a safe and nutritious live food. Tarantula's aren't seen in this light for a number of reasons eg. expense, potential risk and the fact they're seen more as pets (As mentioned earlier though this is not the problem for me ). If you wanted to feed a spider to a another animal then I see no problem with that as long as your know the risks and that it will be of an advantage to the predator but with so many alternative viable feeder choices it just doesn't seem necessary to me. If you were buying tarantula's to feed to your pets would you use ebay anyway? If thats what you needed to feed your animals wouldn't you find a more prolific source?

I should also add that old or new I think the staged fights between animals for fun/money etc are wrong even if they could do battle in the wild. I'm fairly sure that after these fights both animals probably die. I've seen scorpions against spiders where both parties have got numerous bites/stings in. There can be no winners.

Anyway, hope you all have a great new year. I'm off to go get drunk
Have a good one.

Cheers
Craig

**Chris Sainsbury** · 03-01-09, 08:43 PM

Hi

You said that if you had a snake which ate tarantula's then thats what it would get. If you knew it would thrive just as well on dead mice would you still take that risk knowing that the potential was there for the spider to cause your snake harm

No, I said a snake that specializes on tarantula spiders. This to me is a big difference to a snake can eat tarantulas. If the snake has evolved to hunt and eat tarantula spiders then the risks would be lower or?

Yes, I'm sure the snake would enjoy it if it didn't get hurt but if a mouse would do the same job then why bother with the risk & expense

Again would there be such a high risk with such a snake or reptile? As for expense then if after my research into the keeping of a snake such as this, I found that my budget could not afford it then I wouldn't get the snake in the first place.

If the snake was a tarantula which fed on other tarantula's would you risk it when crickets would do the same job?

If my species of tarantula was a species that specializes on tarantula spiders, then yes I would feed it tarantula spiders.

If you choose to keep an animal then it's health and safety should be priority number one.

I don't argue this at all.

You said you'd remove the spiders fangs just like removing a locusts back legs. As far as I'm aware locusts legs have evolved to detach when caught with little or no discomfort.I'm sure this isn't the case with Tarantula fangs.

All the fangs or chelicerae are, are modified legs and like legs they can regrow them if they lose them. This sugests to me that if the need arises they could lose them. The discomfort factor doesn't even enter the picture as they are no different that the insects you feed them in this respect. This thread is an interesting one on this subject but there are many many others around also.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=40470&highlight=pain+thread

Besides I wouldn't remove the chelicerae and instead would get some wire cutters and just snip the fangs near the base.

Off course this is all not really that relevant to the thread anyway.

As for the cockroach example it's a little (if only very little) different as cockroaches are already established as a nutritious and safe livefood

Tarantula spiders could also get established as a nutritious and safe livefood if wanted to.

Yes people do keep them as pets. If you choose to you can keep crickets as pets but they're always going to be seen as a safe and nutritious live food

only by those who use then as such. The people who keep them as pets may see them otherwise.

Tarantula's aren't seen in this light for a number of reasons eg. expense, potential risk and the fact they're seen more as pets (As mentioned earlier though this is not the problem for me ).

Possibly true but it doesn't mean they could not be used (as explained I think?)

If you wanted to feed a spider to a another animal then I see no problem with that as long as your know the risks and that it will be of an advantage to the predator

At last back to the point of my first post on this thread! If this is your view then why report the advert on ebay?

but with so many alternative viable feeder choices it just doesn't seem necessary to me.

Maybe not to you but some people may enjoy having this buying option.

If you were buying tarantula's to feed to your pets would you use ebay anyway?

yes if I could get a cheap deal.

If thats what you needed to feed your animals wouldn't you find a more prolific source?

Most likely yes but why does it make the advert wrong?

I should also add that old or new I think the staged fights between animals for fun/money etc are wrong even if they could do battle in the wild. I'm fairly sure that after these fights both animals probably die. I've seen scorpions against spiders where both parties have got numerous bites/stings in. There can be no winners.

Im pretty indifferent in the invert vs invert way of this kind of thing (see that pain thread, but no this doesn't mean I find it fun to pull the legs of my spiders or hld invert fights etc) but I also am not to keen on seeing dog fights etc. Saying that though I am in two minds sometimes, as when the Iban hold cock fights as part of triditional festivels etc I feel it would be a crying shame if any part of these dieing cultures were to disapear but this is a whole different subject and really has nothing to do with the thread.

Seriously my only point is why the big uproar about selling a tarantula on Ebay even if it is sold as live food?

Cheers
Chris

**Sam Heaton** · 03-01-09, 10:35 PM

Can I just ask Chris is it even possible to remove a tarantulas fangs without it dying through inability to eat?.

**Chris Sainsbury** · 04-01-09, 12:10 AM

Hi
Should be, they do it in Cambodia all the time:-
[ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SDMIbe0voFc"]YouTube - eating tarantulas[/ame]
Some pet tarantulas have also been known to lose fangs in moults before now but regrow them in the next.
Interestingly though I also know of a case where a B. vagans lost one of its chelicerae in a moult but it never regrew it back for some reason. Got on fine with only the one though.
cheers
Chris

**Anita Pile** · 04-01-09, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Sam Heaton View Post

Can I just ask Chris is it even possible to remove a tarantulas fangs without it dying through inability to eat?.

Hi Sam, I guess the question is pretty moot if you're using a tarantula as a food source, it's going to die anyway

(not sure if you'd gut load a T the same way you would a cricket?).

**Anita Pile** · 04-01-09, 11:45 AM