Confusion!!!

[Tania Baker]

Mark,I am right in thinking that Lee rang you from Brazil ?
Surely you must have more information to share ?

I was under that impression too ...... lol ... after u yourself Mark made a statement saying that Mr Ardern had phoned you ... and that u werent expecting the call?

[Mark Pennell]

Mark,I am right in thinking that Lee rang you from Brazil ?
Surely you must have more information to share ?

Nope not a thing, if you are suggesting anything other than call was not out of the blue or had some other agenda

Please direct this to my lawyer who will be glad to take your questions.


Yes Lee rang me as I stated on the thread on the t-store, as all I knew was posted there are then.

Regards
Mark

[Mark Pennell]

I was under that impression too ...... lol ... after u yourself Mark made a statement saying that Mr Ardern had phoned you ... and that u werent expecting the call?

Tania
Read the thread on the t-store and you will know what I know... simple

and yes the call was a shock and I never even new Lee Ardern was out of the country let alone conducting any sort of transactions legal or illegal or other wise.

That's the end of that...

To be honest I wish I did know more, however Mr Ardern has declined to answer any questions the BTS has asked him.

thank you
Mark

[paul fleming]

Mark,
I never suggested anything.
I just thought you may know more than the rest of us peasants.
A lot of people are watching this spidershop saga so please do the right thing for the hobby.
I personally will never buy a WC specimen again......but each to their own.
I have a really hard time time now,thinking about where all the WC specimens I have aquired came from and how they came to

[Mark Pennell]

Mark,
I never suggested anything.
I just thought you may know more than the rest of us peasants.
A lot of people are watching this spidershop saga so please do the right thing for the hobby.
I personally will never buy a WC specimen again......but each to their own.
I have a really hard time time now,thinking about where all the WC specimens I have aquired came from.

Paul
I have absolutely no idea what your on about.. how can I do the right thing for the hobby.

I have nothing to share on this subject other than what seems to be known. If I could shed any light on this I would...

In your own words - thought you may know more than the rest of us peasants. well sorry to disappoint you I don't!

Lets also get a few things clear, just because we are BTS committee members does not mean we have any more information than anyone else.

I suspect rather less as it seems a lot of people won't talk to us on such matters...

No let this be the end to this thread... its wasting everyone time and going absolutely nowhere.

As for never buying WC, then that's a fine moral standing and one that should be applauded.

"The aim of the British Tarantula Society is to promote and encourage the
Responsible husbandry, research, captive breeding, conservation and
General knowledge of theraphosids, scorpions and associated fauna"
conservation policy can be viewed here.

regards
Mark

[Mrs Linda Street]

I fully take on board what everyone has said, and don't doubt Mark's sincerity, but in my opinion, with what solid facts are known, I think we can say that Mr Arden went to collect a large amount of spiders on a pre arranged visit, the flight was diverted, the Brazilian authorities were not happy with his (Mr Arden's) hand luggage!!!! and he appeared unable to satisfy them. The conditions of transportation were dubious in my opinion, and the amount was excessive. I believe the amount was verified by Dr Bertani, who is a respected person with no particular axe to grind.

We then had a quiet period on the run upto and just after Christmas, and I personally heard from people who had been e-mailed, by Mr Arden, with various versions of what went on.

As Mr Arden, has no doubt, increased and benefited his business, by being a BTS contributor and the advertiser of large amounts of his spider stock, on this forum, together with being a prominent seller at shows, is all of a sudden, not interested, and unwilling to speak to prominent people in the BTS and come clean with exactly what he's been up to. It surely casts a dark cloud over his activities.

[paul fleming]

Excellent post Linda.
I would be careful though,with the threat of leagal action being taken if anyone implies the wrong thing,even by accident.
Have to say,I have been on many forums,spiders,snakes,fast cars,guns and all sorts of other ones as well and this is the first time I have ever heard anyone imply that legal action could be taken against a postee.
Actually,I was threatened with the same on another forum too but it is almost never the case.

[wayne balcombe]

I have been a patron of TSS for a while and although i was as shocked as most of you by the Rio saga I have decided to keep my opinion to myself as this does not personally affect me and barr fulfilling a deep seeded need for sorded detal and answers i dont see how it affects anyone other than Lee.

The only thing digging around this subject will uncover is each individuals need for gossip and scandel, surley if TSS have refused to comment then there is nothing more to be learned and the only thing anyone has to go on now is speculation which will innevitably be innacurate and full of conspiracy theories. untill Lee issues a complete statement you are flogging a dead horse unless you would like the BTS commitee to sand bag him, throw him in an unmarked van and torture a confession from him.

For those of you who simply want answers due to the concern you have about individual specimines you have purchased and their origins i say this: - The damage is already done and there is nothing you can do barr return your spider to the wild at your own expense.

for those of you who are concerned with where spiders come from that you may wish to purchase in the future its quite simple - dont buy for TSS if you are that worried.

for the rest of the conspiracy hounds all i can say is how sad it must be that something that may well have been a simple missunderstanding at custom's has got you all so enthralled and had you all accusing the BTS of a cover up.

There really is nothing more to be said on the matter and while i dont expect anyone to take any notice of my opinion you have to ask yourself this. How does this really affect you in any major way? if you cannot answer or the answer is that it does not affect you then maybe its better left be.

[paul fleming]

How can a 1000 or more spiders in a suitcase be a " missunderstanding" ?
Unless you think the Brazilian authorites lied of course?
Are you serious BTW ?
Aslo Wayne,how about cruelty to animals .....that is how it affects me ?

[wayne balcombe]

I dont presume to catagorise it as anything other that someone elses affairs.

interesting to see the small peice of information you take away from that entire message paul.

i understand your empathy reguarding the cruelty issue but if you think about it, all anyone can accuse Lee of at this stage is packaging and shipping of spiders which is something we have all done at some stage only difference is Lee done it on a larger scale.

(note the media made spacial care to mention the every single specimine seized was alive and in good health)

[paul fleming]

Ok Wayne,you asked so I will answer.
If you think that it is ok to cram a thousand or more spiders in a suitcase and make no special provisions for them....it is you who has no business here.
I have sold quite a few spiders and I never make money on any of them...there are lots here who can testify to that.I spend hours packing them so they arrive fit and healthy.....again there are many here who will tell you the same.
Spiders first and profit second mate.....it has always been that way with me.

[wayne balcombe]

Ok Wayne,you asked so I will answer.
If you think that it is ok to cram a thousand or more spiders in a suitcase and make no special provisions for them....it is you who has no business here.

What an utterly rediculous statement! Really paul you are clutching at straws now!

Firstly i'm not condoning any action that results in the suffering of any animal or invert, i'm pretty sure i made it clear in my first post that i'm taking a non judgemental stand here purly because the facts are as yet unknown.

Secondly how do you know what special provisions where or where not made for the spiders in question or are you once again speculating? if not speculation then your statement would lead me to think you are privvy to information the rest of know nothing about!

No-one is calling into question your integrity, i'm sure your husbandry and care of spiders is second to none in your opinion.

[paul fleming]

Wayne,
No provisions were made........unless you mean cardboard boxes and a suitcase in the hold ?
Just read the official report from the Brazilians....that is all I did.
This is getting boring now......please don't post unless you have something interesting to say.
Have to say though,thanks Wayne for keeping this thread going.......BTS are proud of you.

[wayne balcombe]

I wouldn't consider the media's take on the brazilian authorities statement to be completely reliable so as far as i'm concerned its still speculation.

You seem to forget that yours is not the only opinion that counts paul.

I suspect the "bordome" is just related to the inability to form a logical and useful scentence to contribute to a debate that isn't going your way.

By all means if you have nothing but speculation to back up your argumant then step out of the debate and save your conspiracy mongering

[paul fleming]

"Media".....Wayne,i could get banned for what I should say to you.
Instead,because you seem very ill informed.....this is the "media" you refer to.
Dr. Rogerio Bertani at Instituto Butantan, Sao Paulo, Brazil

Here is the thread from the T-store....where Mark made a post or 2....I am also a member there too.

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=14895

Wayne....if you have nothing of interest to say or can't be bothered to reasearch facts about what you base your posts on........go to bed....please.
Speculation........I thought one of them would have had a word with you by now ?