Intelligent Spiders?

[Lee Corless]

Does any one have any opinion on the intelligence of their Ts? I have always been under the impression that they are quite primitive and their brains only follow simple directions, like "go to object" "hide" "attack" "run away" etc. Not complex thought processes. This said My P.regalis seems to show relative intelligence. Example she runs to her hide when ever I open the tank, I used to think this was just because of the vibration/noise and she was scared. but just recently she has started to put her waste food items on a piece of bark right near the door for me to remove. Is she just placing them there as coincidence, or is it a memory that she has created knowing that I will be able to remove them with least disturbance to her. One time she even attached one balled up roach to the inside of the actual door!!!!!

Could this be real intelligence at work or is it just coincidence that is making me think she is more "brainy" than she actually is?

I will just say that no other T that I own or have ever owned has showed this behaviour. But she I my first and only "Pokie" so could this be only true for this species?

I would love to hear some of your experiences....

[scott wilson]

Lee i agree with you completely...my T Blondi knows her routine and knows when im about, she seems to acknowledge that im poking around in her viv and lets me do whatever i need to do in there and she just sits there waiting for me to finish...she knows when its feeding time and will move to the burrow entrance in expectation when i open the lid...its quite spooky really that she seems to know im around...my B Smithi will sit by her water bowl if its empty as if to say oi pay attention my waters evaporated!!!..then she will sit quietly as i refill it then move to take a drink..like she knows its me who fills it up for her..dont be mislead into thinking these spiders are dumb creatures...even scorpy my yellow banded scorpion likes watching Ray Mears on the TV so he cant be stupid !!!!!

[Vicky Child]

my B Smithi will sit by her water bowl if its empty as if to say oi pay attention my waters evaporated!!!

Wow my smithi sling does that too.

They really are clever little critters.

[Craig Mackay]

but just recently she has started to put her waste food items on a piece of bark right near the door for me to remove. Is she just placing them there as coincidence, or is it a memory that she has created knowing that I will be able to remove them with least disturbance to her.

I think it's just a natural instinct to keep their burrow/shelter clean. I find all of my spiders will do this although I find that they tend to leave their bolus near the water bowl.

[Christopher Smallman]

Does any one have any opinion on the intelligence of their Ts? I have always been under the impression that they are quite primitive and their brains only follow simple directions, like "go to object" "hide" "attack" "run away" etc. Not complex thought processes. This said My P.regalis seems to show relative intelligence. Example she runs to her hide when ever I open the tank, I used to think this was just because of the vibration/noise and she was scared. but just recently she has started to put her waste food items on a piece of bark right near the door for me to remove. Is she just placing them there as coincidence, or is it a memory that she has created knowing that I will be able to remove them with least disturbance to her. One time she even attached one balled up roach to the inside of the actual door!!!!!

Could this be real intelligence at work or is it just coincidence that is making me think she is more "brainy" than she actually is?

I will just say that no other T that I own or have ever owned has showed this behaviour. But she I my first and only "Pokie" so could this be only true for this species?

I would love to hear some of your experiences....

Lee I will have to send my spids over to you so your P.regalis can teach them some good manners as everything ends up in their waterdishes lol.

[Larry Shone]

I very much doubt theres room for inteligence in a spider. They dont have a brain as such, just a gathering of cells called a Ganglion, and they pretty much run on instinct.

[Lisa Grose]

What an interesting thread. I have a Mexican Flame leg that leaves all her left over unwanted food bits in a pile up the corner of her tank. It does make it easier for me getting shut of it but I have also noticed that she leaves it by the heat mat and this dries it out very quickly leaving it burnt to a crisp. So my theory is this stops any parasites or growth of things like that, that thrive on cold wet damp places so I do believe that thay are intelligent enough to know this.
Also I have a Grammastola rosea that will not let me remove her water dish to clean it as if she knows the importance of water to her and she gets protective and sits in the dish and rears up in a threat pose and I have taken photos of her doing this. Saying that these spiders are suppose to be calm and for beginners she scares the life out of me when I ever have to top it up.

[darrell hetzel]

Is she just placing them there as coincidence, or is it a memory that she has created knowing that I will be able to remove them with least disturbance to her.

i believe that ts do have at least a basic memory. they remember where the water dish is. also, a few of my older spids that have been with me a while recognize me (or at least that is the way it appears). my H. lividum will shoot out of her burrow at any one who opens the lid, except me.

[Rich.Harrington]

Associating repetitive behavior with routine or intelligence in T's does pose some issues. To play devils advocate on a couple of the above examples, very few spiders kept in captivity stay in the one place for a great deal of their life. We constantly rehouse them as they grow, so this tends to destroy the concept of memory, even in advanced species a memory map of surroundings takes months if not years. For the adult animals that get bought and housed in one ever lasting space, you then have to take into account they are now in a totally alien enviroment, the air doesn't move correctly, the vibrations are all alien and so on. Since T's don;t have the capacity for actual learning I'd argue against them making themselves at home, instead simply dumping moults & food remains as far as they can before something spooks them to retreat.

The age old argument of the T that 'likes being petted' can also be argued against, no doubt everyone has heard of or seen first hand at least one G.rosea/B.smith etc turn psychotic for no apparent reason one day. If they had the capacity for anything resembling affection it would be observed between members of their own species first and only mimicked in captivity. This then pretty much shoots down that aspect of intelligence.

To presume a T is guarding a particular object in the enclosure as its own or important to its survival also has issues. We as humans don't have the capability to sense vibration (either ground or air) to anything near whats needed to allow us a glimpse of the world from their perspective. When you place and animal in confinement it doe's take them long to explore all boundaries. Behavior that we interpret as ownership can also easily be highly defensive. Personally I have a G.pulchra attack me if i try to remove anything from the enclosure, yet she also will strike at a few drops of water anywhere nearby, or any other object entering. So rather than viewing her as trying to stop me 'removing' something what is more likely (through simple fact of a identical reaction each time) is that she is acting aggressively towards anything 'entering' her territory.

Humans often forget that animals don't have issues such as 'where would i like my dinner kept' or 'i think i want this spot kept nice and clean' An animals number one priority is survival through instinct, it is only our ability to procure vastly more food than we require that gives us time to dwell on the mundane. T's have to wait on their food to come during which they need to conserve energy as much as possible, and things like memory or thoughts require alot of excess energy they just can't spare. As much as some folk might not like the idea i'm firmly in the camp of them being simple organisms as far as anything resembling intelligence goes, and it being put upon them by humans because it's a 'pet' (we all love how clever our doggy is).

Saying all this though there is a species of jumping spider (Portia labiata) that does exhibit signs of real intelligence. They tend to prey on all the standard food fares, but also other spiders, including other jumping spiders. In the course of all this they can learn to mimic the rhythm's other spiders make, the way they wave legs for communication (in the case of jumpers), remember to keep distance from spitters, and most of all they can plan. In lab tests of Portia labiata prey items have been placed in what are effectively spider assault courses, with no clear direct route the Portia labiata will sit sometimes upto an hour watching and planning. Once a route has been established the spider will sometimes move in what seems to be the wrong way, however the course of this 3d maze will be made so that it drops the spider in the prime position for ambushing the prey type. Not many articles around the web on these anymore but there was a show on nat geo.

[Lee Corless]

Please do not think I am saying that it is intelligence. As I stated,I believe they follow simple rules.....
I used to own An ant farm, and watching them work and collect food was so coordinated that you could argue they were "intelligent". but obviously they're not

[Lisa Grose]

No Lee, ants are the most intelligent of all the insects. They are the only insect that can share duties in their nest and live and work out together and share work tasks. Surely if you kept a ants farm and you could actually see them you would know this. lol. At the Zoo if you ever view one of these they are really unbelievable with the way they move, work and live together. They are so clean and tidy it is like you have handed them a broom and they clear off the patio area free of any dying bugs for you. Haven't you ever noticed how if one of their own gets killed, a whole tribe of them come and after what looks like a meeting to me they carry the little creature off to their nest. I can only pressume that they are preparing burial arrangements as they carry them away. Some even look upset to me wiping away tears. If no-one else has been this sad to take note of this activity in ants please excuse me but you dont know what you are missing. Try it, life changing forever.