Surgery on a P. murinus due to a bad molt

[Yinnon Dolev]

Here is the situation.
At around 2 pm today I noticed that my P. murinus started molting.
The problums:
1) It was doing it upright on all eight.
2) I moved it to a new enclosure last night
3) during the move it was slightly injured on the tarsus of leg 4 . There was some bleeding (about 3 droops) but it seemed to stop after that.
It has since been stuck in the molt, with the carapace and abdomen out, but all 8 legs still stuck in molt. It's been 8 hours in this situation.

I was thinking of atempting surgery.

Is there anyone here who has even the slightest expirance with undertaking T surgery?

Here is what I was thinking. I will give it untill tomorow morning (should I wait that long??). If by then the situation will not get any better, I will attempet to remove the old skin. I am assuming that by that time I will definitly not endanger the T by atempting such a thing. If I am wrong pls correct me.

The method as I see it now would be:
1) anesthetiza by way of CO2 for 3 min'. (2 min' was sufficiant in some articales I read)

2) move the T to a soft steril surface such as a gaza pad. This surface will be in a semi deep open container such as a tub. I will keep the co2 tank slitly leeking into the tub to keep the T under anesthetiza (co2 is heavier than air).

3) currently the T is with all 8 legs, and only them in the old skin. Using sissors I will cut the old skin to seperate each leg for better access.

4) If I notice at this point that more restraining is needed, I will use gaza strips with tape.

5) for each leg, using sissors (surgecal ones) I will atempt to cut between the old exoskeleton and the new one. This being the hard part. I will have a wet cotten ball, vassalin, tweezers and crazy-glue at hand to stop and bleeding and soften the old exoskeleton.

6) the most difficult part as I see it now would be the tarsus of each leg due to the shape of it. I would primeraly try to pull the old exoskeleton off, and if that fails, only then will I atempt to cut there.

I have all night to get ready for this and I would like to hear ALL comments and advice anyone has about this.
I will also contact a local vet to get her advice, but she has tolled me before that she does not handle exotic pet's of any kind.


Pls leave any advice concerning legality off this thread. I am not from England, and those do not concern me in Israel. The local laws don't consider Arthropoda under protection.


Ps - how do I spell sissors correctily?
Thanks in advance,
Yinnon.


There is a picture on the tarantula store site in this thread:

http://www.thetarantulastoreforum.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1879&st=0&

[Chris Sainsbury]

To be honest I wouldn´t use the co2. I know this may seem very harsh or cruel to some people in regard to any pain factor but, I think it is all to easy to kill the spider in this way even before you have a chance to perform such hard task like removeing the old cuticle. Trying to monitor if the spider is still alive yet still anesthetized I think would be as tricky as the "op" (how would you do this?) and just a little too much co2 will be all thats needed to kill the spider before you even have a chance to see if your "op" worked.
Just my honest oppinion!

good luck with it anyway.

[Yinnon Dolev]

I am sad to report that she didn't make it.
In the end I didn't go through with the operation, but tried to use a wet brush with warm water to help her out. I moved her to an ETU to better moniter the heat and humidity.
After 2 hours I manneged to free one leg - the ingured one.
during this she was not under co2 because I figured that I could use all the help I could get.
I let her be till this morning only to find out that she was DIA and still with 7 leges in the molt.

Figuring it's worth the expirance, I tried my idea for the surgery.
This is she is to small. I maneged to free 3 leges using that method. 2 more I just pulled the skin off. the last two were lost in the attempt.

Thanks for the help and advice non the less,
Yinnon.

[Ray Hale]

Sorry to hear of the loss. Moulting is a difficult time for tarantulas. Often they get their legs stuck and exhastion takes over. I have seen many spiders die from this. You did well to get as far as you did.

Best wishes

Ray Hale
BTS Committee

[John]

yeah bad luck was it humid enough ?

[Yinnon Dolev]

Yes it was humid enough.

I am preatty sure that the reason that caused the bad molt are that I moved it to a new viv the night before she started the molt.

She was injured on leg iv during the move, but not very seriously, and the bleeding stoped after just a coupple of min'. so I don't think the injury contributed much, but it all acumilates.
I do agree with that the main reason probably was that it didn't have a web.

Overall. the T was in an awfull lot of distress prior to the molt.
I made a big mistak in not reading the signs of the upcoming molt, and it cost her life.
I did gain some expirance in emergincy prucedures on T's and learn on the importance of following up on the habbits of your T.

Knowing the aditude of the P. murinus, I should of gotten a big red flshing light that she is coming on a molt when I managed to catch her so easly when I was moving her. Of coarce this was a bit to late anyway because I already demolished her house....

All in all, the main lesson for me (and hopfully to everyone else who needs it) is "Know the habbits of your T." and "Don't fiddle with them, just let them be."

And if nothing else, I learned how to spell scissors !!!

And just in case you don't know the aditude of this T, then here is somthing to remind you...


cheers,
Yinnon.

[Graeme Wright]

Sorry to hear about that shame as well as she looks like anormal color form too.

The injury she received could very well be why she got stuck. if a tarantula gets injured during a moult the bleeding can fuse the too skins together inside preventing the spider from wiggeling out of it's exuvium. in a case of that happening I would have removed the injured leg

[Yinnon Dolev]

Actualy GW, the one in the picture is not the one that died. It's another that is still alive and kicking, and, I am ashamed to say, was a witness to the failed procedure.

BTE, thanks for the tip with removing that leg, though I don't think It would have done much good in that case as the T was already very exostied by the time I started the procedure.

Cheers,
Yinnon.