Just a little reassurance on Brachypelma smithi behaviour.

[Andrew Ferguson]

Hello to everyone on the BTS forum and its members. Its been a while since I've posted anything or even read the boards. However, I come back seeking advice.

My B.smithi recently moulted (17-06-10 and she's now about 2.75/3 yrs old) and with her legs spread out she's as big as my hand. For the past year she has been a pet rock. Occasionally lent up against the glass and not so much as moving for hours on end. I've recently changed the substrate to a fresh coir/sand mixture (about 75%/25% approx). I've spread some of the old substrate thinly over the new substrate. The humidity varies between 60-75% depending on whether the heat mat at the back of the tank is on or not. Now she seems to spend a lot of time walking. Up and down the tank, over her hide, through her water dish and even hung upside down on the wire mesh. She only seems to settle against the side of the tank when the heat mat is on. She also seems to bask spread legged on the substrate too. Normally, if the tarantula stays on the side its down to something wrong with the substrate. As nice as it is to see her on the move, this seems so unlike her.
Can someone tell me not to worry about it and that's it's just a new personality with the new moult.

Thanks is advance guys.

p.s. to Colin. I'm still looking for a Dysdera crocata for you. I have the kids looking regularly but I've not seen one since I spoke to you at Newark.

[Colin D Wilson]

The normal question first Andrew ..... we did sex this as female didn't we ???

Just sounds so much like a wandering male from your description.

Other than this they do sometimes have a "personality" change from moult to moult and this might be the case.


Thanks for the continued search for the elusive D. crocata, now i'm in Scotland i have a few more areas with sightings to check out when i have chance.
What with this one and Atypus affinis i feel i have two white whales ........ call me Ishmael

[Andrew Ferguson]

I do believe it was yourself that identified her as a girl Colin. But being under three years old, it would be a bit young to be wandering about searching for a bit of how's your father if it were a male surely?

p.s is Atypus affinis the spider you wrote the article about in the BTSJ?

[Colin D Wilson]

I do believe it was yourself that identified her as a girl Colin.

I recall, thats why i thought i'd mention it, she seems to be doing a wandering male impression

But being under three years old, it would be a bit young to be wandering about searching for a bit of how's your father if it were a male surely?

It slipped my mind how long you'd had her ... old age an' all ..ahem

p.s is Atypus affinis the spider you wrote the article about in the BTSJ?

it sure is, fantastic little spider, will have to get out more and do a sweep of the countryside here and get some data for the area

[Andrew Ferguson]

Now you've got me thinking Colin, maybe she is a he. I've just been looking through Stan Schultz' book and the bottom picture on page 51 of the immature male Brachypelma exuvium resembles my smithis last moult. Its legs also seem to be more longer and slender in relation to the rest of its body than before. I'll just have to wait and see how the next moult turns out and just enjoy the rambles the tarantula takes now on a daily basis.

[Andrew Ferguson]

Just a quick edit to my earlier post. It was Louise Nichols who identified her as a girl.

http://thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?3841-Too-young-for-vent-sexing-Help-required!&p=28171#post28171

[John chambers]

Just a quick edit to my earlier post. It was Louise Nichols who identified her as a girl.
http://thebts.co.uk/forums/showthrea...8171#post28171

Hi Andrew.
My smithi does the walk and plays at breaking out or sits and washes or makes web balls to take to the other side to push in and some times it just stops totally as if asleep lol.
I'm waiting to see if it moults as it's butt has a bald spot then it'll be sexed.

Regards
John

[Stanley A. Schultz]

... My B.smithi recently moulted (17-06-10 and she's now about 2.75/3 yrs old) and with her legs spread out she's as big as my hand. ...

B. smithi are normally a long lived, slow growing species. A 3 year old B. smithi is normally only a very few centimeters in leg span. Either you've been power feeding it, or it's a rather unusual specimen, or your estimation of its age is off. Can you shed any light on this?

... I've recently changed the substrate to a fresh coir/sand mixture (about 75%/25% approx). I've spread some of the old substrate thinly over the new substrate. ...

I'll get back to this below.

... The humidity varies between 60-75% depending on whether the heat mat at the back of the tank is on or not. ...

Humidity around a B. smithi that's almost the size of your hand is a non-issue. If you live in a very dry place (e.g., north Africa; Calgary, Alberta, Canada; the Namib Desert) all you need do is cover the open part of the cage with plastic food wrap to retard ventilation. Evaporation from the water dish will easily raise the humidity to within the very broad, acceptable range. (And I wouldn't put any faith at all in that humidity gauge!)

Humidity in tarantulas is a vastly over-rated topic. Their exoskeletons are much more impermeable to water loss than our skins, they hold a significant amount of water in their body tissues, and they apparently can tolerate dehydration much better than we can. All they need is a water dish so they can drink when they need to. Don't stress over humidity.

... Now she seems to spend a lot of time walking. Up and down the tank, over her hide, through her water dish and even hung upside down on the wire mesh. ...

1. Most enthusiasts, because they have only had experience with captive tarantulas, fail to appreciate that in the wild the tarantula's world is almost always vertical. Arboreal tarantulas live on vertical tree trunks and such; and the ground dwelling (terrestrial or fossorial) species most commonly live in vertical burrows. (Note that there are always exceptions, and we're talking percentages here, shades of gray - not black and white.) A flat, horizontal cage floor is a distinctly foreign environment that many tarantulas, even the cage bred ones, sometimes feel uncomfortable on. She'll come around shortly. Patience, patience, patience.

2. After you've cleaned the cage, and especially if you've changed the substrate, the place just doesn't seem like home anymore. So, the tarantula, for the first few days or weeks, will often be restless and searching. It's just trying to find its old home again.

I'm a bit puzzled about your mixing sand with the coir. Is there some rational reason for this or are you just blindly following someone else's (possibly misguided) recommendations?

And, given that the whole point of cleaning the cage was to remove the old substrate and its dirt, why did you then sprinkle some of the old substrate on the new, thereby recontaminating the clean cage?

... She only seems to settle against the side of the tank when the heat mat is on. ...

Why are you using a heat mat? Do you live in the Arctic? The Antarctic? What are the ambient temperatures in the room where you keep it (high, low, median)?

Our experience with B. smithi is that they are EXCEEDINGLY tolerant of temperature extremes. Unless you're living in one of those ice hotels in Norway, it should do just fine at room temperature. At cooler temperatures they eat less and grow slower. (It is unknown if they grow larger or remain smaller, however.) But, they also live longer.

Temperature, like humidity is vastly over-rated by novices. Tarantulas are poikilotherms (loosely, "cold blooded") and are effected a lot less (by a huge margin!) by variations in temperature than we. Generally, if you're comfortable so is the tarantula. Don't stress over temperature.

... She also seems to bask spread legged on the substrate too. ...

This is a normal response after molting while the new exoskeleton is hardening. It's just letting the wrinkles fall out of her new set of permaprest clothes. Not to worry.

... Normally, if the tarantula stays on the side its down to something wrong with the substrate. ...

See above.

... As nice as it is to see her on the move, this seems so unlike her. ...

Patience, patience, patience.

It would seem that you haven't had a lot of experience with tarantulas. May I suggest reading http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/stansrant.html, "Stan's Rant." Then read all 4 of the recommended books.

But mostly, enjoy your little, 8-legged wonderment!

[Colin D Wilson]

Just a quick edit to my earlier post. It was Louise Nichols who identified her as a girl.

Ah right, i seem to remember you posting a picture saying "this is Gloria" and asking for ventral sexing if possible, i think i said something along the lines of why change a name as it looked female in the shot, as we know ventral sexing so young (apart from pokies and some other odd species) is more of a guess-timate.

[Colin D Wilson]

B. smithi are normally a long lived, slow growing species. A 3 year old B. smithi is normally only a very few centimeters in leg span. Either you've been power feeding it, or it's a rather unusual specimen, or your estimation of its age is off. Can you shed any light on this?

This seems to "sway round with the waters" so to speak.

To give a few examples of slow to rapid growth from mine and Elaines Brachy's....

B vagans male reaching 3 inch LS in 3 years, (supposedly average growth rate)
B emilia reaching mature male in les then three years, (rapid growth rate for species)
B smithi male that's only moulted twice in two years and is 4 inch LS now, (possibly another two moults away from maturing)
Brachypelma "vagans/albop" male cross matured in 2 years (rapid rate again)
B boehmei female went from 2 inch LS to adult size in 2.5 years. (Fairly rapid)
B emilia female went from 2 inch to 3.5 inch LS in 3 years. (slow as you'd expect for genus)

A real mix match of growth rates.
All these spiders have been kept the same way, two to three suitable sized crickets a fortnight and at 78-82 F with a night time drop.

Anyway great to see you on the forum again Stan, I know you probably have trouble finding internet connections with your "way of life" (i'm still jealous ) and it's nice to have you come and be like a little "whirlwind" occasionally when time permits.

[Nicola Dolby]

I'm not sure you should be worried Andrew, I've had many tarantulas all of which like to wander (male and female) Remember it is their natural instinct to hunt for food, thouhg to this excess I'm inclined to agree with Colin (your spider's an immature male).We still know very little about tarantulas and their behaviour though, mine thinks she's a JCB at the moment!

[Andrew Ferguson]

Well thank you everyone for the replies especially Stan. Just to answer a few questions Stan, and please forgive me if I don't answer them all. My avatar picture is my tarantula after his/her first moult whilst in my ownership. I've had it since February 2008 that is why I estimated his/her age to be about 3. As for the humidity, I was just trying to share as much information as possible. I don't trust my gauge 100%, I use it solely as a guide and a bit of decoration. When I changed the substrate, I added sand on the recommendation of a website (which I cannot remember) but the information seemed very detailed. The tarantula was put into a pet pal with some of its substrate when I was cleaning out the tank and changing the substrate. It then went into pre-moult so I kept him/her in there to moult. When it came to put it into its new tank, I thought putting the substrate it moulted on would be a sort of "home comfort". As for the heat mat, I use it very sparingly. More for in the winter months when we don't have the heating on during the day and in the summer months for a very short time to help try and raise the temperature a bit higher than it is in my living room. This may sound silly, but I thought Mexico was a hot country and raising the temperature higher than my room may replicate that. I don't power feed it at all. I've read its not a good thing and does not replicate its eating habits in the wild. Its gets one or two crickets a week and thats only if it will take them. Its like to go for periods without eating. I am still inexperienced as a keeper and its always a learning curve and I love reading about spiders, tarantulas and the husbandry that goes with it. I often delve into your book (edition 2) and Jerry G Walls book as well as the BTSJ's.
The only reason I wanted the reassurance was that its behaviour had changed from how it had behaved for the past 2.5 years and was worried I'd done something wrong. I want the best for my tarantula and don't want to lose him/her because of my neglect or ignorance. Its such a pleasure to see it active and to watch the mechanisms of its body. My wife and I often are found staring at the tank rather than the TV.
I hope this clears any confusion or questions Stan and I appreciate your input.