Help for Newbie Please - Very Worried

[Wendy Munro]

Hi, I am a newbie posting about my first tarantula. She is a Northern Gold and I have had her for about three months now. A few weeks after we got her she moulted (which was a shock as I had not been expecting this to happen so quickly). Since her moult she has been very panicky. If a cricket goes near her she is almost frantic to get away. I came in to the sitting room yesterday and she was on her back in her water bowl and couldn't get out. I helped her out and she lay, huddled, for hours. She is moving about again but oddly - she seems uncoordinated. I have since found that the stone I had in her bowl was too small, and have replaced it.

I am not aware that she has caught more than one cricket since her moult. I have been putting mealworms in the tank too but they seem to dive underground as soon as they get in there, and I don't know if poor Gussie is managing to catch any.

She seems terrified of almost everything, and her leg movements are chaotic.

Before her moult she moved easily and leaped upon her food.

Did something go wrong in the moulting process? It took a good few hours but she looks perfect...

She is on a coir substrate and her I keep her tank at about 23/26 degrees and try to stay within 60 and 75% humidity.

Can anybody help please? I am frightened she will die, or that I should be doing something for her that I am not doing.

[Peter Lacey]

Difficult to answer this without some more information and possibly ampic/video but here goes...

Feeding needn't be more than 1 or 2 crickets a week. Are you attempting too many insects at the same time?

After a moult your T should be left undisturbed for a few days to over a week before feeding again.

Are your insects notably larger than the Ts abdomen?

Have you fed it locusts at all? Used aerosols nearby?

Could you describe it's behaviour as Tasmanian devil-like?

[Wendy Munro]

We once fed locusts but she wasn't interested so we didn't try again.

We have been careful about the size of her crickets but she runs away from them.....

I am not aware of anyone using aerosols except that they were used a couple of times in the kitchen (where the crickets live) ... we stopped as soon as it dawned on us...... Gussie lives in the sitting room.

My husband says yes to the Tasmanian Devil - absolute whirling dervish with legs flying everywhere.

We waited a week after her moult before feeding. We put mealworms in but its kinda hard to tell if she is getting any because they dive into the substrate as soon as they land!

Thank you for helping!!

[Wendy Munro]

We have been watching vids on YouTube, and generally researching around on the net. We think she may have DKS - her behaviour is just like those in the vids and articles.

Is there a cure?

[Peter Lacey]

Hi again
The condition you suggest is something a number of people have witnessed Including myself. I'm rather hoping it's not the case but to look on the bad side this may be DkS. I suggest cutting down on all disturbance and reduce feeding to once a week with a small sized cricket. Provide a water bowl. I've heard of Ts moulting through this so fingers crossed for you.

On a more positive side it could be down to dehydration, especially considering recent weather. Again try to maintain a full water bowl, overfill onto the substrate, make sure the enclosure isn't in direct sunlight and provide a hide for your T to find refuge.
Please keep us informed, hopefully someone else can provide more help and good luck

[Peter Lacey]

Eek to be honest I was struggling not to find the same conclusions.
There's not enough about DkS for us to give a prognosis. What some aremtrying is to find common denominators hence my questions. Try to follow my suggestions - small food items, water bowl, minimal disturbance.
Its quite possible this issue has occurred prior to the purchase

[Wendy Munro]

Thank you for your help I am very grateful.

She has always had a large water bowl (with a stone in it), and humidity is always between 60 (lowest) and 80 highest. I will keep her as quiet as possible and let her waterbowl overflow, and make sure nothing disturbs her. I'll wait a week and then try her on a small cricket and hope she manages to catch it. At the moment she panics like the clappers when a cricket gets near her.

I'll hope for the best and wait and see.

[Colin D Wilson]

Without seeming to be two dramatic, the few times the aerosol was used in the kitchen "could" have been enough to toxicify the crickets enough to have a detrimental effect on the tarantulas health.
The crickets will absorb the toxins and pass them on to the spider when it eats (or possibly just in the same space), also the effective molcules of the aerosol will be carried airborn and will remain active for some time even after we do not notice them anymore.
simple actions like using insectaside products ... not washing hands properly and picking a cricket up to feed a spider can be enough unfortunately.
I use the example of a keeper using the "spot" formula flea treatment on his dog, simply rinsing his hands then feeding his spider ... the latter of which lasted about two hours before curling up.

As Peter says DKS ( an innacurate name thats been "tagged" for an unexplained problem in spiders, effectively a mammalian nerve problem due to the effects of some medication) is a possibility.
from the research i know of personally ... a number of spiders "infected" with this have been wild caught and have showed the presence of differing parasites (from nemetodes to larvae) that eventually interupt the transmissions between ganglions / nerve endings / operative valve structures of the spider causing the "drunken" nature of motion.
Another selection of spiders under observation have had no parasites and have just suffered a form of "neurological iregularity" (possibly due to endings being blocked somehow) some of which have managed to moult several times successfully and show greatly improved function on each further moult.

[Wendy Munro]

My husband managed to get a vid of Gussie this morning. We uploaded it here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kwvodbps8Y

Gussie is moving quite slowly in the video - she is usually more spasmodic and a lot faster when she hurtles round the tank.

[Peter Lacey]

Similar to my own experiences unfortunately.
The common denominator for myself and 2 other keepers are locusts so we've moved away from using them and so far, fingers crossed, no issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKBIEZ63-hI

[Wendy Munro]

What is the usual outlook please?

Gussie is too uncoordinated to eat. If she doesn't eat, how will she get big enough to need to moult? If her condition improves with moulting, surely she will need to grow to need to moult?

I am sorry for all the questions but we really want to do our best for her. We are very fond of her.

[Colin D Wilson]

The common denominator for myself and 2 other keepers are locusts

If you keep the locusts at around 80f for a while before you feed them then there'll be no issues as an enzyme in their digestive system will be active and not a problem, at cooler temps this enzyme is dormant and is toxic to some inverts when injested.


Wendy, there could be a chance of a moult even if no food is taken as spiders have a sort of inbuilt self repair system that takes over.
Unfortunately quite a few spiders don't make it to moult and pass on.

[Wendy Munro]

Thank you for your help Much appreciated.

[steve wilkins]

ron baxter once warned me against using locusts as he lost his t. blondi after feeding her a locust- he found her dead the next day, not even in a death-curl, but stretched out, full-span. this was a young adult, & ron had lost other t's to mysterious sudden deaths after feeding them locusts. he then stopped using them, & warned other keepers not to either.

[Denny Teasdale]

ron baxter once warned me against using locusts as he lost his t. blondi after feeding her a locust- he found her dead the next day, not even in a death-curl, but stretched out, full-span. this was a young adult, & ron had lost other t's to mysterious sudden deaths after feeding them locusts. he then stopped using them, & warned other keepers not to either.

Glad I read this...! was going to give "Roxy" my G. rosea some locusts. Wendy, I hope Gussie makes it and it's nothing serious.