P. fasciata and P. h(big long name I cant remember how to spell)

[Joanna Pendleton]

Why are these not allowed for trade on here. I get the P h(thingy) is a new one, and I guess any for sale are prob wild caught and not captive bred, and an issue, as I've onyl recently even heard of it - is this the same with the P. fasciata? I don't know anything about pokey's you see, be nice to get some more insight into these species particularly!

Thanks guys

J x

[wayne balcombe]

P.hanumavilasumica or south indian P.fasciata are from a protected area and are therefor not allowed to be traded on here due to thier endangerment, the BTS have strived in conjunction with local authorities to provide a safe protected are for these spiders.

Any genuine P.hanumavilasumica traded in the hobby will undoubtedly be illegally obtained by poaching etc.

[wayne balcombe]

Just to clarify, there is no restriction on trading P.faciata here, only those traded as South Indian varient.

[Colin D Wilson]

This past thread may be of interest

http://thebts.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?4556-Poecilotheria-hanumavilasumica

and if you do some searching you can find information such as this from Andrew (our Chairman)

http://www.thebts.co.uk/poecilotheria.htm

[Daniel Richardson]

I think personally this is stupid, B Smithi are or where endangered and we're still allowed to sell and trade these but only captive bred.
How on earth are we going to up the level's of these rare Pokie's without a captive breeding programme, i'm sure if allowed many people would really concentrate they're efforts on just breeding these alone, i know i would.

[Joanna Pendleton]

Daniel, if you read the links Colin kindly posted (thank you Colin) you'll see that many good arguements are made for why this is the right thing to do, so there is no need for me to tell you them again and open up this debate again.

That said I do just want to point out that I agree with the BTS stance completely. x

[Christopher Smallman]

A little off topic but Dan did mention Brachypelma smithi I did hear that it was against the law to re-introduce these to the wild from CB spiders!!!!

Maybe in time the only way you are going to see these great creatures will be in the hobby.

And the thought of the number of un-discovered tarantulas already lost is a sad thought indeed.

Chris.

[Daniel Richardson]

The way i see it is, that your never going to stop habitat destruction and random squishings by the poor and native people of India, they're main priorty is'nt tarantula conservation.
The only way to increase population of this SP would be to have captave breeding programe's by experts to reintroduce back to the wild.
I am aware of the ban of taking any T's from the wild in certain parts of the world but like Chris say's-this has ruined the chance of finding new species in these part's for future breeding and hobbyist's collecting them.
We have to remember that all T's was once wild and without wild caught species, even if u like it or not, we would not have any spider's in captivity today, i believe it's better to use wild caught when breeding to introduce new blood into the hobby.

[Thomas Grabiec]

You right Dan, but please note - CB spids will not be able to survive in wild. Reason is very simple - they are not strong like WC. Why?? In captivity you care about ur spids - temperature, humidity is ok, you looking for best and safest food etc. I don't want to say, that spids in captivity are stupid or sth like, but after several generations simply weaken. I have seen lots of articles, but i have not links now. I'll try to find them.

Of course, if anybody think i'm wrong - please correct me.

Best regards

[Daniel Richardson]

I don't think so though Tom, only my way of thinking so dont quote me on this but tarantula's are'nt like mammal's or dog's, spider's act only on instinct and they're instinct does'nt differ whether in captivity or not, so surely rearing these in captivity as slings before releasing in the wild would give them a better chance in the wild.

[Thomas Grabiec]

tarantula's are'nt like mammal's or dog's

What's the difference:P??

You do not understand me my friend. I mean the typical genetics. I have no evidence for it now, but I have read that after several generations undiminished genes and spids CB will not be able to survive in the wild. I will try to find links for articles on the subject in english.


Maybe it would have a chance of success if the couples would be caught, bred in captivity and released unharmed, but who will do that?? On the other hand, increasing environmental degradation very limited any possibilities.

As long as people do not cease to destroy the habitat of our favorites, rather, there is nothing we can do about spiders, and soon will be found only in the captivity. As I see it.

[Nicola Dolby]

Hi Thomas, Daniel.
You are quite right to believe that re-introduction might not work, but the issue is a little more difficult that just living conditiopns. There are two main obstacles to CB introduction success; behaviour and genetics.
1) over generations of breeding CB tarantulas out spiders have not encountered threats, things which might eat them or compete with them. They still have their instinct to use threat postures,urticating hairs etc. but thats all. When put in an environment where they might be in danger I wouldn't fancy heir chances. However from my own experiences taranulas have a very good learning curve when it comes to where to get food (think Pavlov's dogs) to such adaptation to deal with danger is the lesser problem, one which on its own would deal with re-introduction success well.
2) Then there is the more serious problem. Deseise, bacteria, mites, fungal infection - our tarantulas don't have to deal with these in captivity nearly as much as in the wild. Consequently this would leave them vunerable and could easily wipe a CB population in the wild out very quickly. If you take someone with red hair and their partner has black hair, and their childen's partners all have black hair, and so on how many generations before the "red hair" stops occuring? Similarly the protection genes have simply been bred out of our spids.You could try introducing a CB population into the wild, seperate from the existing population, so as not to infect them with the non-protective genetic make-up and see if they survived, but at the end of the day you have to consider whether it is really fair on the spiders to do so, in all honesty you might be condemning a whole population to death and if you let them interbreed with the existing population before they became genetically established you might be making things worse. The Indian authorities (as far as I'm aware) have set up a sanctuary for P. hanumavilasumica and other indigenous species already so something is being done. Hope this helps.

[Nicola Dolby]

Please forgive my spelling in the previous post, it is really bad

[Thomas Grabiec]

But that's what i want to say Nicola, but my english is not the best yet.

[Peter Lacey]

Just out of interest, where would you reintroduce them to if their habitat was destroyed?
How could you be sure your breedings were definitely the correct species?
How would they be transported to India? to or by whom?
and in what numbers to ensure there wasnt an inbalance that affected other species?
And of course how would the effects of this reintroduction be measured?