Confused!

[Andrew Braid]

Hi all, my first T arrived yesterday and I'm a very proud new owner of a beautiful Aphonopelma bicoloratum. I placed the container she arrived in in the tank but she hasnt moved whatsoever in a day and a half, is this normal?

Cheers

[Christopher Smallman]

What a super choice as a 1st spider

It is normal she will feel safe in the container that she arrived in rather than stepping foot into the big unknown of her new home.

She will eventually come out in her own time but there is nothing wrong in giving her a helping hand an artist paintbrush and a bit of sweet talking can be used.

Chris.

[Andrew Braid]

Yeah I'm super chuffed with her. I just dont know what to expect so I will probably be full of questions over the next few weeks!

Just hoping she was ok. I was a bit worried!

Thanks Chris

[Stanley A. Schultz]

Hi all, my first T arrived yesterday and I'm a very proud new owner of a beautiful Aphonopelma bicoloratum. I placed the container she arrived in in the tank but she hasnt moved whatsoever in a day and a half, is this normal? ...

She is scared ABSOLUTELY witless of her new environment. Remember, she's just been abducted by aliens!

And, when she finally does emerge from her hide she'll probably spend the next week hanging from the cage walls.

All this is normal. And, all this too shall pass.

"In a tarantula's world, God is a too warm, clumsy, bumbling, smelly giant with too few legs."

[Colin D Wilson]

Good choice of spider, and as said above ...nothing to worry about, it'll settle down in the near future.


Nice to see you back posting Stan, i'm adding this to my list of "Stans clasic lines"

"In a tarantula's world, God is a too warm, clumsy, bumbling, smelly giant with too few legs."

[Andrew Braid]

Hi guys,

Im having a few problems... My girl still hasnt moved at all since emerging from her transport tub. Its been over two weeks now. I gave her an extra week to settle in before attempting to feed her and yesterday tried putting a cricket in but she hasnt shown any interest whatsoever...

The humidity is always around 70-75% and the temp ranges from 20-24oC

Does she still need more time or is there something wrong?

Im not impatient, just worried if she is ok!

Thanks for all your responses, you're all very helpful and im grateful.

Regards,
Andrew

[Stanley A. Schultz]

[QUOTE=Colin D Wilson;52108] ... Nice to see you back posting Stan, ...

I come and go depending on the availability of free WiFi hotspots in my immediate area. As retirees, Marguerite live in a motorhome (see thumbnail) and vacation 6 months a year in summer in Canada when the temperatures are relatively mild, then vacation 6 months a year during winter in the southern USA, again when the temperatures are mild. Sort of high end trailer park trash.



(Uploaded with ImageShack.us)

Our lifestyle allows my to meet lots of tarantula enthusiasts and even watch wild tarantulas in a natural setting.

... i'm adding this to my list of "Stans clasic lines"

Just as long as you don't compile them into anything like a sticky!

[Stanley A. Schultz]

... My girl still hasnt moved at all since emerging from her transport tub. Its been over two weeks now. ...

This is a bit unusual. Try nudging her gently with the blunt end of a pencil and report back.

... The humidity is always around 70-75% and the temp ranges from 20-24oC ...

Though touted by every care sheet ever written (or at least that I've seen) humidity considerations are generally red herrings. Bogus data. Except for two categories of tarantulas, all tarantulas have better water retentive characteristics than we do. That is to say that they are less sensitive to low humidity than we are. And, the desert species tend to be quite intolerant of high humidity. While A. bicoloratum is not a desert tarantula, it does much better if kept in a dry cage.

And the two exceptions?

1) Babies with less than about a 4 cm leg span. Babies smaller than this have not yet developed a thick enough layer of the waxy substance on their exoskeletons to prevent massive water loss through transpiration.

2) A few species that we call the "swamp dwellers." Examples are Theraphosa blondi (goliath birdeater tarantula), the genus Hysterocrates (some species of African baboon tarantulas), and the genus Ephebopus (S. American skeleton tarantulas). The Aphonopelma and their close relatives the Brachypelma are definitely NOT in this class!

Similarly, temperature worries are also a waste of time. The average enthusiast assumes that because tarantulas are cold blooded animals that they are more sensitive to somewhat extreme temperatures that we are. In reality, that's false and the reverse is actually true. Any temperature that you're comfortable at is just fine for your tarantula. The ramifications to keeping a tarantula at a lower temperature are that it eats less, grows slower, but probably will live longer. Keeping a tarantula at relatively higher temperatures will mean that it'll eat more, grow faster, probably mature sooner, and probably die sooner. But, as always with tarantulas, there are exceptions when you get down to specific examples.

... Does she still need more time or is there something wrong? ...

It's hard to tell with the information you're giving us. We need to know a lot more about the cage, substrate, and furnishings for instance.

Where is the cage placed in your home in relation to outside walls, windows and doorways?

How big is your tarantula? (Leg span is measured from the tip of the front leg on one side to the tip of the rear leg on the other side when the tarantula is resting in a normal posture. Body length is measured from the front of the chelicerae to the back of the abdomen, exclusive of the spinnerets.)

What sort of lighting does the tarantula receive?

Get back with details as soon as you can.

[Andrew Braid]

Hi Stan,

Thanks again for your response.

The cage and such I bought as a starter kit from the Spider Shop (http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insec...roducts_id=531) The substrate came as an expandable block, after expanding I put in the microwave as advised to sterilise. I then let it cool and placed it in the tank and compacted it lightly to a depth of 3inches or so. Inside the tank there is a low point in a corner with a half plant pot over it and I have covered the pot with two small pieces of cork bark. Over that corner I have put some small pieces of bark chippings that the spider shop supplied with the starter kit. The water bowl is at the opposide corner of the tank, again washed as advised. I had a half coconut in there, again supplied by the Spider Shop, but removed this a week or so later.

The tank is in a corner of the room where the narrow side of the tank is by the outside wall of the house, the window is around 4ft further down the wall with a radiator beneath it. This is the only place in the room where the tank will receive no direct sunlight at any point of the year. She receives natural lighting during the day and a few hours of dim artificial lighting in the evening up until, say 11pm.

I would say she is around 3inches leg span.

Oh, and just stroked her with my paintbrush with no movement at all even with a gentle nudge. I think the worst has happened. Where have i gone wrong? I felt I had followed all advice I had received. Sad...

[R Thomas]

I think the worst has happened. Where have i gone wrong?

Hi Andrew,

Whether your T has expired or not the advice is never give up hope until they begin to smell. No matter how you lose a T it always seems to make you feel you have done something wrong when in all honesty you probably have not. I always get so depressed when I lose one even if it is DOA.

Perhaps if it has expired then it may have been a male that has reached maturity and died of natural causes. If not then perhaps it had an injury that you were not aware of. The field of Tarantula illnesses and cures is very much in its infancy and an unexpected loss may never be explained in medical terms.

Richard

[Colin D Wilson]

It looks as though it's not doing very well Andrew, hopefully without me seeming to be insensitive (hopefully constructive) there's a few scenarios that may be considered and some questions to ask..............
It's a possibility that the spider parcel was knocked around when in with royal mail, this unfortunately happens. (does the spider seem in good condition or is it curled up or have legs that appear twisted or bent)
Was there a frost the on night(s) the spider was in transit?
Were all chemicals (if used) rinsed away when steralising?
do you use any insecticides in the house? (dog/cat flea treatments etc,) the spray type will have an adverse affect on inverts, the "spot on" type can be transfered by touch to the decor of the tank. Even other visitors who have this on their hands could pass on enough to pose a problem.
does anyone use ecessive amounts of hairspray, perfume, body sprays etc, the carrier in some of these products can be toxic to inverts.

These are a few things to consider and if you can erase them from the list then it would seem that your secenario is just an unfortunate one, if there's a topic on the list that seems relevant then this can be controlled if you decide to get another spider. Sometimes we have to think outside the box when things happen, it's not always to do with how we look after our animals but external influences that we consider normal in our way of life and not think it would/can cause any problems.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

... The cage and such I bought as a starter kit from the Spider Shop (http://www.thespidershop.co.uk/insec...roducts_id=531) ...

I hate those starter kits. Too much junk, not enough of the stuff you really need, and all of it low bid!

... Oh, and just stroked her with my paintbrush with no movement at all even with a gentle nudge. I think the worst has happened. Where have i gone wrong? I felt I had followed all advice I had received. Sad...

I haven't time to give you even a thumbnail description of how to house and care for it properly before the battery dies on this laptop. And, we're traveling now anyway, so I don't have much time at the moment.

So, for the next 2 days to a week follow the directions in http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/icu10.html. In the meantime I'll compose something offline and send it to you via this thread as soon as I find another WiFi hotspot.

If you haven't done so already, you might also read http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/stansrant.html.

Best of luck.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

In composing a response to your other queries I went back to the beginning to refresh my memory, and found this:

... my first T arrived yesterday and I'm a very proud new owner of a beautiful Aphonopelma bicoloratum. I placed the container she arrived in in the tank but she hasnt moved whatsoever in a day and a half, is this normal? ...

I am fairly certain that your first tarantula was gravely injured during transit, and I would be very surprised if it survives, especially after all this time in your care with no obvious improvement.

As others in this thread have mentioned, never give up on a tarantula until it smells dead. So, if I were in your place I'd still keep it in an ICU as I suggested in an earlier post, but I'd also contact the person I bought it from about the possibility of a replacement or a refund.

Whatever happens, you need to understand that tarantulas are normally very hardy, resilient creatures. Something quite severe had to have happened in transit, or it had to be very badly packaged to have arrived in this shape. Don't give up because of this one unfortunate incident. If it finally succumbs, get another tarantula so you can find out what they're really like.

Small consolation, I know. Sorry. Best of luck.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

... The substrate came as an expandable block, ...

This is almost certainly shredded coconut husk (aka coir, shred-a-bed, and a bunch of other colloquial and commercial names). The two most popular substrates (approximate equivalent to "bedding" with mammals) are the material you're using and common, old fashioned, unadulterated peat (aka black peat, Canadian peat, sphagnum peat, and a bunch of other colloquial and commercial names). In the long haul their differences are relatively minor, and they both work well.

... I put in the microwave as advised to sterilise. ...

This is a useless and even dangerous practice. Useless because there is little or nothing in the coco husk that would harm a tarantula in the first place. And useless secondly because beginning the very moment it comes out of the microwave all sorts of biological "things" are constantly raining down on it out of the air, introduced by you as you work around and in it, introduced with the prey you feed the tarantula, and lastly, introduced as "come-alongs" on and in the tarantula itself. All your efforts were for naught because it will quickly develop a large population of a variety of microorganisms anyway.

Dangerous, because your coco husk wouldn't be the first to burst into flames, or spill on you while still hot and cause a burn.

... Over that corner I have put some small pieces of bark chippings that the spider shop supplied with the starter kit. ...

I am always extremely suspicious of bark chips because I have no idea what sort of bark is used and what effect it might have on the tarantula. The absolute worst bark or wood to use around almost any small animal's cage is that which smells of cedar. There are a bunch of naturally occurring chemicals in cedar that are actively toxic. That's why it was originally used in closets and chests. It repelled moths and dermestid beetles in the days before nylon and polyester. We've inherited a "warm, fuzzy" spot in our psyches for it because it carries a connotation for "home" and "the good old days." We've forgotten or failed to appreciate the real reason for using it: as a pesticide!

And, many other conifers (e.g., pines, spruces, etc.) And many tropical woods have also evolved resins and other chemicals that have less than desirable effects on arthropods as a means of self defence. Avoid the use of almost all barks, woods, wood shavings, and wood byproducts. (The common exceptions are cork bark and aspen.)

... The tank is in a corner of the room where the narrow side of the tank is by the outside wall of the house, ...

Not good. The outside walls of buildings get cold, often very cold, during winter. And, corners are notorious for poor air circulation, and therefore poor heating.

... This is the only place in the room where the tank will receive no direct sunlight at any point of the year. ...

Move the cage to another room or make some arrangement to protect it from direct sunlight, but get it into a warmer area. Although tarantulas are much more forgiving of lower temperatures than we, there's no point in stressing or testing its limits.

I would caution you against using an artificial heating source because of the inherent risks. It's much better to merely move the cage than to try to engineer a fool-proof heater.

... I would say she is around 3inches leg span. ...

Good! My major concern was that it might be a baby of less than half that size. Such babies must be cared for differently than the larger ones. We had to be sure we weren't giving you the wrong advice.

... Where have I gone wrong? I felt I had followed all advice I had received. ...

It was not your fault. Remember the statement in your first posting:

... my first T arrived yesterday and I'm a very proud new owner of a beautiful Aphonopelma bicoloratum. I placed the container she arrived in in the tank but she hasnt moved whatsoever in a day and a half, is this normal? ...

It was near death when you received it, and it is highly unlikely that you can resurrect it.

You need to be very cautious not to follow "all advice I had received" blindly. Tarantulas are too bizarre and their requirements too unconventional for that. And, too many "experts" really don't have a very good grasp on how they work or why we take care of them in one or only a few, often unexpected, specific ways. Some of their recommendations are ludicrous, if not outright dangerous to the tarantula.

You need to try to understand how they work so you can make a valid judgement about the things you're doing, or others are suggesting, so you don't inadvertently, albeit innocently, kill the next one you get. That's a major reason why I urge you to read the four books mentioned in Stan's Rant at http://people.ucalgary.ca/~schultz/stansrant.html.

Again, best of luck! And never give up!