contraversial thread time, but i'm slightly annoyed about how much the pet trade in wild caught spiders is villified...not by our natural enemy the media, or "animal rights" groups, who not only revel in misinformation, they require it to survive...but by hobbyists themselves who should know better!!!
let me start by saying wanton collecting of any animal such that it cannot replenish itself in a given locality is taking the mickey. this is true when it's for food, fur, trophies and for the pet trade. this is not what this thread is about.
however...spiders and most invertebrates breed ALOT. they produce sometimes many, sometimes hundreds or even thousands of offspring in each batch. the survival rate is low, partially because of predation, partly because they compete amongst themselves.
if you go in, as a collector for the pet trade, and get a reasonable number (dictated by the population plus the distribution of the species) of adult females, possibly ready to drop...you have done nearly no damage to the species at all. the ones you didn't find will drop eggsacs, and their young will flourish and the slight absense of competition. the next time you visit, the population will have recovered.
i realise some in the past have collected too many...Brachypelma, for example may've suffered for the numbers shipped out before they were added to CITES. go there now, and the populations are FINE. in fact, the locals still consider them vermin and kill them whenever they can, but the populations thrive. read Andrew Smith's account if you don't believe me.
some species are not as spread out as that...some are specialised and inhabit small areas. we need to be responsible with them, yes...but a collector would probably never find all of them in a 2 week trip, and they should bounce back too.
or they would do, if not for the real enemies!!!
habitat destruction goes on at horrific rates...vast swathes of the Amazon, for example, are reduced to farmland for beef. South-east Asia has not escaped as they have replaced their indigenous forest with palm tree plantations. again, read Andrew Smith's very sad account...it's terrifying.
the other enemy is the dry trade. people, who have to feed themselves somehow, have discovered that us silly westerners like trophies...we like pinned dead huge tropical bugs and things. i am being general with that "we", of course.
therefore, people who have the time because they live there are systematically stripping their environment of thousands of these animals and killing them.
this is hailed as "good" by various organisations, as it's the indigenous people living off their own resources, etc.
but this is about as wise an action as us cutting down every oak tree in the country because some other country likes the furniture. ...oh wait, we've already tried to do that here and other places...hmmm
but even this could be sustained to a degree, if not for habitat destruction...just a bit of responsibility would help.
compared to these two massive problems, the pet trade is a drop in the bucket. and what's more, you could argue that taking the spiders from an area before it was logged SAVES them. perhaps one day they can be reintroduced, if the madness of habitat destruction is stopped!
i'll repeat that thought...WC spiders are INTENDED TO LIVE AND THRIVE. some die en route, that is a sad fact, but things have improved. what businessman would want his animals to all die? he'd want to sell them all...each death hits his profit margin. add to that that most spider traders are enthusiasts themselves...they generally care!
compare that to the trade in deads and habitat destruction...and hopefully some of you will re-think their stance on WC spiders. it may come to a time when the only live specimens are in captivity...it'll be a sad day, but at least they won't all be dead!!!
an alternative is to set up captive farming projects...this could be a great way for locals to make money on their own fauna AND put something back into the wild. for each sac of G porteri, 75% could be reintroduced, and 25% sold to the pet trade. seeing as we generally seem to suck at breeding them, this could help nature AND us...
this could be extended to other forms of animal life as well, larger creatures...and in fact, this sort of thing IS happening world-wide...so there is hope!!!
so don't be too quick to jump on the band-wagon the media and the "animal rights" groups have created. they are full of lies and deceit. i know of one "animal rights" group, the Animal Protection Agency (Ltd!!!) that is a registered company. they fund themselves with their fraudulent campaigns. they've attempted to cause trouble for reptile keepers, in partnership with Lush, recently, and been countered effectively argument by argument, by the Federation of British Herpetologists...mainly using current CITES figures, actual data and plain logic...
these "animal rights" groups etc cause much trouble for the hobby, and each of them would love exotic animal keeping (in some cases ALL animal keeping) banned. this would be counterproductive for everyone, especially while habitat destruction, etc, continues.
rant over.
let me start by saying wanton collecting of any animal such that it cannot replenish itself in a given locality is taking the mickey. this is true when it's for food, fur, trophies and for the pet trade. this is not what this thread is about.
however...spiders and most invertebrates breed ALOT. they produce sometimes many, sometimes hundreds or even thousands of offspring in each batch. the survival rate is low, partially because of predation, partly because they compete amongst themselves.
if you go in, as a collector for the pet trade, and get a reasonable number (dictated by the population plus the distribution of the species) of adult females, possibly ready to drop...you have done nearly no damage to the species at all. the ones you didn't find will drop eggsacs, and their young will flourish and the slight absense of competition. the next time you visit, the population will have recovered.
i realise some in the past have collected too many...Brachypelma, for example may've suffered for the numbers shipped out before they were added to CITES. go there now, and the populations are FINE. in fact, the locals still consider them vermin and kill them whenever they can, but the populations thrive. read Andrew Smith's account if you don't believe me.
some species are not as spread out as that...some are specialised and inhabit small areas. we need to be responsible with them, yes...but a collector would probably never find all of them in a 2 week trip, and they should bounce back too.
or they would do, if not for the real enemies!!!
habitat destruction goes on at horrific rates...vast swathes of the Amazon, for example, are reduced to farmland for beef. South-east Asia has not escaped as they have replaced their indigenous forest with palm tree plantations. again, read Andrew Smith's very sad account...it's terrifying.
the other enemy is the dry trade. people, who have to feed themselves somehow, have discovered that us silly westerners like trophies...we like pinned dead huge tropical bugs and things. i am being general with that "we", of course.
therefore, people who have the time because they live there are systematically stripping their environment of thousands of these animals and killing them.
this is hailed as "good" by various organisations, as it's the indigenous people living off their own resources, etc.
but this is about as wise an action as us cutting down every oak tree in the country because some other country likes the furniture. ...oh wait, we've already tried to do that here and other places...hmmm
but even this could be sustained to a degree, if not for habitat destruction...just a bit of responsibility would help.
compared to these two massive problems, the pet trade is a drop in the bucket. and what's more, you could argue that taking the spiders from an area before it was logged SAVES them. perhaps one day they can be reintroduced, if the madness of habitat destruction is stopped!
i'll repeat that thought...WC spiders are INTENDED TO LIVE AND THRIVE. some die en route, that is a sad fact, but things have improved. what businessman would want his animals to all die? he'd want to sell them all...each death hits his profit margin. add to that that most spider traders are enthusiasts themselves...they generally care!
compare that to the trade in deads and habitat destruction...and hopefully some of you will re-think their stance on WC spiders. it may come to a time when the only live specimens are in captivity...it'll be a sad day, but at least they won't all be dead!!!
an alternative is to set up captive farming projects...this could be a great way for locals to make money on their own fauna AND put something back into the wild. for each sac of G porteri, 75% could be reintroduced, and 25% sold to the pet trade. seeing as we generally seem to suck at breeding them, this could help nature AND us...
this could be extended to other forms of animal life as well, larger creatures...and in fact, this sort of thing IS happening world-wide...so there is hope!!!
so don't be too quick to jump on the band-wagon the media and the "animal rights" groups have created. they are full of lies and deceit. i know of one "animal rights" group, the Animal Protection Agency (Ltd!!!) that is a registered company. they fund themselves with their fraudulent campaigns. they've attempted to cause trouble for reptile keepers, in partnership with Lush, recently, and been countered effectively argument by argument, by the Federation of British Herpetologists...mainly using current CITES figures, actual data and plain logic...
these "animal rights" groups etc cause much trouble for the hobby, and each of them would love exotic animal keeping (in some cases ALL animal keeping) banned. this would be counterproductive for everyone, especially while habitat destruction, etc, continues.
rant over.
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