Animal Park at Longleat

[James Box]

i turned it on as it said they were pairing tarantulas.

...to sum up my opinion, i'll say that it's lucky Grammostola are not at all easy to breed as they were pairing a Grammostola rosea to a Grammostola porteri male!!!
idiots!
the girl was doing her best to provide a humid environment for the female...

they also said sexing giant black millipedes was hard, when it's just a case of looking for the short pair of legs (shows up as an obvious gap) on a male.

shocking!

it's disconcerting to realise you know more than supposed experts at a zoo...

[Colin D Wilson]

Didn't see this (obviously a good thing )

do you mean porteri type male to a "RCF" rosea type female ????? oooh dear.

African train milli's are quite easy yes ....7th leg (?) curved close to the body in males .... if you remember Shane was sexing some for the clueless guy next to Dan Parker at the Leeds show we went to.

Everybody knows something extra to the next person but at a zoo or park they need to be accurate and factual.

Disconcerting .... good word use

[Nicola Dolby]

Do you think someone should let them know?

[James Box]

Didn't see this (obviously a good thing )

do you mean porteri type male to a "RCF" rosea type female ????? oooh dear.

African train milli's are quite easy yes ....7th leg (?) curved close to the body in males .... if you remember Shane was sexing some for the clueless guy next to Dan Parker at the Leeds show we went to.

Everybody knows something extra to the next person but at a zoo or park they need to be accurate and factual.

Disconcerting .... good word use

yeah mate that's exactly what i meant!!! clear as day, and the fact that she said that she hoped the nice red colouration the female has would get passed on...
i was gobsmacked! and she claimed to have done research for a year prior to it! a quick google search would've revealed all!

Do you think someone should let them know?

probably! i will have a look for an email address!

[James Box]

i have sent this email:

To whom it may concern,

I am not sure to whom to write about this, but yesterday i saw an episode of Animal Park in which two "Chile rose" tarantulas were mated. I do not know how old this episode is, but i feel compelled to write and set your tarantula "expert" straight on a couple of things.

Apparently, she did research for a year before this mating. In that time, I am shocked she did not learn three very important facts which Google search would've taught anyone.

1. "Chile roses," as they were called, more accurately called Grammostola sp, are from the driest parts of Chile. They do not require damp soil as she was shown to provide. luckily, with the ventilation Faunaria provide, the soil will dry out soon.

2. Spiders do not pass on colour to offspring in the way she implied when she referred to the female's nice red colouration.

3. This is the crucial fact: "Chile roses" come in two varieties! Up til recently, they have been called Grammostola rosea Normal Colour Form and Grammostola rosea Red Colour Form. However these are considered two distinct species now with sufficient reason to keep them separate. even before this, it was frowned on by the tarantula keeping community to cross breed these. This is especially true now that they are considered distinct species.

The relevance of this is that your "expert" mated two distinct species, a male G porteri and a female G rosea...there is no justification for this, and with any luck NOT produce any eggsack, as that would be a travesty of correct breeding practice and would result in hybridised offspring.

I am shocked at the lack of knowledge displayed in that program and in the interest of the spiders themselves i would urge your keeper to join the British Tarantula Society at www.thebts.co.uk

sincerely,
James Box

[Nicola Dolby]

I like it!

[Colin D Wilson]

Nice concise and to the point matey.

As an aside, when visited by Elaines parents yesterday, her Dad mentioned seeing this program and refered to the colouration of the spiders himself .... now if a 70 odd year old chap with a knowledge of tarantula limited to just looking at (and being told about) what we have here can see this..... then i would have assumed it was more obvious than ever that there was something not right about the mating in the program.

[Jamie Cooper]

I like it!

Same here! Very well written mate.

Jamie

[James Box]

I like it!

thanks!

Nice concise and to the point matey.

As an aside, when visited by Elaines parents yesterday, her Dad mentioned seeing this program and refered to the colouration of the spiders himself .... now if a 70 odd year old chap with a knowledge of tarantula limited to just looking at (and being told about) what we have here can see this..... then i would have assumed it was more obvious than ever that there was something not right about the mating in the program.

isn't that funny, my mum noticed the difference too! it was clear as day, and absolutely shocking the keeper didn't realise this obvious fact!

Same here! Very well written mate.

Jamie

thanks

so far no reply, so no idea if it'll do any good...

[Peter Roach]

Dont mess about, say what you mean LOL

Even my wife who has no interest in T's at all said to me " I thought chilli roses are suposed to be kept dry, so why is she keeping it on wet moss"
She then said "How did i know that" and accused me of brain washing her LOL

[Colin D Wilson]

isn't that funny, my mum noticed the difference too! it was clear as day, and absolutely shocking the keeper didn't realise this obvious fact!

Even my wife who has no interest in T's at all said to me " I thought chilli roses are suposed to be kept dry, so why is she keeping it on wet moss"

Amazing eh? .... average "mr. & mrs. Bloggs" have more common sense and knowledge than qualified (?) people running a wildlife park

She then said "How did i know that" and accused me of brain washing her LOL

You've got the "subliminal message" racket sussed then eh Pete

[James Box]

i got this rply:

Hi James,
Thank you for your comments regarding our spider breeding story, which was actually filmed at Longleat over three years ago.
I do remember after its original airing another Tarantula keeper having similar concerns about what looked like a cross breeding of two now recognized different sub species of the Grammostola sp.
I am pleased to inform you that despite your concerns they most definitely were the same species, which is not particularly clear to see on the television pictures even for knowledgeable keepers like yourselves.
As you know true G Porteri are far more grey and have more setae than G rosea.
But due care was taken to ensure at the time that what we called a red phase male, being selected to breed with a red phase female.
I also seem to remember the keeper talking about all the positives of spiders and using our little slot on TV to promote all the good things and dispel the same old myths that we hear day in and day out. A mission that all fellow spider keepers like yourself unite and defend with our own sense of vigour.
Your second point on humidity is valid but I believe the humidity offered was and still is on a wet end, dry end basis.
All our Chile Rose's do very well in that environment, with care to ensure the hides are in the dry end.
This allows the spider a natural dry environment and yet some humidity should they require it.
Looking at our eating and shedding records all our eight legged friends seem to do very well with this self selecting balance.
I am also happy that you shared your concerns on the BTS forum (not sure about the insult!) but I would also like the chance to comment on your points raised about Millipede sexing.
Yes it is easy. Yes it is obvious, but only once you know what to look for.
The majority of people sitting watching the Animal Park television series do not have that same understanding or knowledge as invert keepers.
It would not make for very interesting viewing if our keepers did not use the technology available to us and add some excitement to what you take for granted.
To involve someone is still the best learning aid, so we ensure the methods used on TV help us instil and re-enforce facts that so many people appreciate.
Many of our visitors who have since seen the programme do comment on how they now know how to sex a millipede and often tell us if we are using a male or female in a display.
Finally James on a personal note, I would like to thank you for the fact that you took the trouble to write and share your concerns, it is a credit to you and the knowledge, care and understanding that you have of these amazing creatures.
Kind Regards
Darren Beasley

[Colin D Wilson]

As you know true G Porteri are far more grey and have more setae than G rosea.

Do what with a who now ????!!!???

Your second point on humidity is valid but I believe the humidity offered was and still is on a wet end, dry end basis.

Fair enough

I am also happy that you shared your concerns on the BTS forum (not sure about the insult!)

Insult??? i took "idiots" as your personal opinion to the situation James

but I would also like the chance to comment on your points raised about Millipede sexing.
Yes it is easy. Yes it is obvious, but only once you know what to look for.

True, but at the end of the day looking for a gap in legs isn't "hard" it's like spotting a missing wheel on a car, still we all have different way of explaining things

Finally James on a personal note, I would like to thank you for the fact that you took the trouble to write and share your concerns,

Kudos, it's nice they took the time to reply and offer explantaions and views (although i can't help thinking if you would have got this much back if you hadn't posted this thread James)

[James Box]

yeah i said i was surprised that was a red phase male, but i thanked them for taking the time. you may be right though, it may've been this thread now you mention it!!!

Do what with a who now ????!!!???


Fair enough


Insult??? i took "idiots" as your personal opinion to the situation James

True, but at the end of the day looking for a gap in legs isn't "hard" it's like spotting a missing wheel on a car, still we all have different way of explaining things

Kudos, it's nice they took the time to reply and offer explantaions and views (although i can't help thinking if you would have got this much back if you hadn't posted this thread James)