Haplopelma lividum burrowing question?

[Jamie Cooper]

Hi guys,

I have a female Haplopelma lividum, who has barracaded the entrance of her burrow. Not with webbing, but with substrate. She's completely sealed in. She did this about 6 - 8 weeks ago and has refused all food items since. She was mated several times earlier in the year and I'm hoping she is guarding a sac down there.

Has anyone else experienced this with this species? Is this typical behaviour from a gravid female?

Although moulting seems to be the obvious answer, 8 weeks just seems like a long time to me. During previous moults she has only ever webbed up the entrance and done it in less than half the time.

Is it possible that the burrow entrance has collapsed, trapping her down there?

Any ideas? My guess is that she has a sac down there.

Any information or advice is greatly appreciated

Jamie

[Craig Mackay]

It certainly sounds promising Jamie. It seems likely its either gonna be a sac or a moult. 6-8 weeks isn't necessarily a long time to hide for a moult as the spider will seal itself away before the moult and for some time afterwards too. I wouldn't worry that she's trapped, if she can dig down she can definately dig herself out. As far as what you can do, it's always a tricky one especially when you don't know why she's sealed away. If it is a sac and you don't want to deal with it hatching inside her burrow then I would be tempted to dig in a bit and see if she's holding a sac. If she is it'll probably be in your best interests to take it from her and incubate the contents. Otherwise, just leave her some more time and see what comes out eventually.

[Colin D Wilson]

I'm hoping she is guarding a sac down there.

From what you say, this looks like a good possibility

Has anyone else experienced this with this species? Is this typical behaviour from a gravid female?

Yep!

Is it possible that the burrow entrance has collapsed, trapping her down there?

Not really, they can dig their way through hard compressed sand so a couple of inches of light substrate shouldn't cause a problem ..

Any ideas? My guess is that she has a sac down there.

Mine too .... hope we're right

[Jamie Cooper]

Thanks for the reply guys

If it is a sac and you don't want to deal with it hatching inside her burrow then I would be tempted to dig in a bit and see if she's holding a sac. If she is it'll probably be in your best interests to take it from her and incubate the contents.

I'm tempted to do this. But I'm a bit worried about stressing her out.

If I allowed the sac to hatch with the mother, at what point should I seperate the spiderlings? Is it 2nd Instar?

Jamie

[Jamie Cooper]

From what you say, this looks like a good possibility

I really hope so. I had another female ditch her sac at 25 days

[Craig Mackay]

They'll leave the sac at either the nymph-2 stage or fully fledged spiderlings. I don't know much about breeding this species so don't quote me on this but the mother will likely provide some level of care to the slings in terms of feeding before they disperse. If you plan to leave them to hatch out with the mother make sure they won't be able to escape through any ventilation holes. A pair of tights over the tank will solve that problem whilst still allowing the same ventilation. Everyone has a different preference but I would be tempted to get in there and remove the sac before this happens so the slings can't disperse and set up their own burrows within the mothers tank. If you were to remove the sac, it will cause a level of stress to the female but after a good bite to eat she'll soon get over it so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do and keep us updated Jamie.
And fingers crossed it is a sac

[Jamie Cooper]

They'll leave the sac at either the nymph-2 stage or fully fledged spiderlings. I don't know much about breeding this species so don't quote me on this but the mother will likely provide some level of care to the slings in terms of feeding before they disperse. If you plan to leave them to hatch out with the mother make sure they won't be able to escape through any ventilation holes. A pair of tights over the tank will solve that problem whilst still allowing the same ventilation. Everyone has a different preference but I would be tempted to get in there and remove the sac before this happens so the slings can't disperse and set up their own burrows within the mothers tank. If you were to remove the sac, it will cause a level of stress to the female but after a good bite to eat she'll soon get over it so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do and keep us updated Jamie.
And fingers crossed it is a sac

Thanks for the advice Craig! Great idea about the tights.

My main concern with stressing her out is if she eats the sac. I'm afraid she'll eat it while I'm digging her up.

I think I'll leave it until the weekend and decide then.

Thanks again mate,

Jamie

[Nicola Dolby]

I'd be inclined to artificially incubate as well to be honest. I know its a bit daunting to try and take an egg sack out of a burrow but its all part of life's experience!! I've had a Pterinochilus wall herself in before but not for that long, she had a bad moult and went straight into a new moulting cycle (successful). Good luck anyway!

[Craig Mackay]

Thanks for the advice Craig! Great idea about the tights.

My main concern with stressing her out is if she eats the sac. I'm afraid she'll eat it while I'm digging her up.

I think I'll leave it until the weekend and decide then.

Thanks again mate,

Jamie

I wouldn't worry about her eating it in the time it takes to dig her out. She's gonna be far more concerned with dealing with the imposter (you). She wouldn't be able to eat it that quickly anyway. If you were to dig her up then leave the sac with her then that might be a different matter. If you do try remove the sac it's useful to have a pair of tongs aswell as a paintbrush or something. You can distract her with the brush and remove the sac with the tongs. Otherwise it'll be a tug of war which could damage the sac. Some spiders will give up the sac quite willingly whilst some will put up a hell of a fight.

[Jamie Cooper]

Thanks Nicola! I think that's what I'm going to do. I have an incubator set up ready.

I wouldn't worry about her eating it in the time it takes to dig her out. She's gonna be far more concerned with dealing with the imposter (you). She wouldn't be able to eat it that quickly anyway. If you were to dig her up then leave the sac with her then that might be a different matter. If you do try remove the sac it's useful to have a pair of tongs aswell as a paintbrush or something. You can distract her with the brush and remove the sac with the tongs. Otherwise it'll be a tug of war which could damage the sac. Some spiders will give up the sac quite willingly whilst some will put up a hell of a fight.

Ahh, I see. Brilliant. Thanks Craig. I think I'll do that then. I'll have a few spare hours this weekend.

What a great Father's Day present an egg sac would be - LOL I just hope she hasn't moulted.

Jamie.

[Craig Mackay]

What a great Father's Day present an egg sac would be - LOL I just hope she hasn't moulted.

It would indeed, good luck

[Ray Hale]

Ahh to remove or not to remove that is the question. One posed for decades by worried parents to be. My experience with this species is that they normally make good mothers and having bred them a number of times and having never removed an egg sac in my life to incubate it I would be inclined to leave it be. Although I know there is mileage in the alternative arguement and I know that breeders like Ray Gabriel swear bythe technique. Personaly speaking I suppose it depends on your own gut feeling. Whenver I have bred this species the female has holed herself up for weeks and she used sustarte has a protective measure. I assume in the wild it is a form of protection from hungry predators, adverse weather conditions or an attempt to thermoregulate the burrow.
Cheers

Ray

[Jamie Cooper]

Thanks for the input Ray.

My curiosity got the better of me unfortunately and I had to have a peek. I didn't dig very far at all. I just removed a bit of the substrate at the entrance of the burrow and could see inside. To my surprise she had neither moulted or layed a sac! She was still as fat as ever and not too happy about the intrusion.

I honestly thought she was way ahead of this. I feel all I have done is disrupted her and set her back. She was very dull in colour. Oh well, I'll know for next time to give her some more time.

It looks like I'll have to keep you waiting for those slings I promised you Ray.

Thank you everyone who posted, it is much appreciated.

Jamie

[Thomas Jessen]

I recently got offspring from haplopelma hainanum. I let the sac be with mom, and gave her 100% peace. I separeted the slings as spiderlings, 102 exactly.

[Craig Mackay]

I would have thought she would have done something by then
Were you able to see the whole burrow? If you couldn't it's possible that she left a sac behind her to come and defend the burrow from you but if she's still looking fat then your probably right enough.

Hopefully she'll still make one soon enough.