Plastic Tubs V Naturalistic Enclosures

[Peter Roach]

Andy smith's article in the lastest BTs journal Vol 27 (2) regarding plastic tubs v naturalistic enclosures has really got my brain cells working overtime which was probably his idea.

For years it has seemed to me that the keepers and breeders in Germany consistantly have much better results in keeping and especially breeding a large variety of tarantulas than keepers in the UK, is this because most keepers in the UK mainly keep their tarantulas in a variety of small basic and sterile plastic tubs and the Germans dont ?

I spoke to a friend recently who keeps a large collection of Poecilotheria (mostly in cereal tubs) and I asked him what sized naturalistic enclosures he would recommend for arboreal Tarantulas. His answer was cereal tubs for large juveniles and adults and glass tanks of 9 inch X 9 inch X 15 inch for breeders because anything bigger was a waste of space !
I have seen some of these tanks, they are top opening and have very little ventilation which seems to me just a larger version of cereal tubs.
Is this why keepers in the UK have problems consistantly breeding anything but the 'easy' species like OBT's, P irminia and P cambridgei ? Is it because we cannot be bothered to set up a naturalist enclosures with adequate ventilation, soil, plants and lighting or has it primarily to do with cost ?

After spending a few hours struggling to read the German tarantula forum (google translator has a lot to answer for) I managed to get the basic's on how they do their Tarantula enclosures and it is miles away from what we do in the UK. It is widely advised on UK forums that coconut coir is the best thing to use as substrate (peatmoss a close second) with some people even going as far to bake or microwave it before putting it into their tarantulas tub to kill any 'nasties' and sterilize it.

In Germany (on the forum at least) the recommended substrate was soil straight from the 'forest', obviously it must be searched for any undesirables like ants or centipedes first but it is put straight into the enclosure without any sort of sterilization as to do so would kill all of the micro-organisms that live in it. The second recommended substrate is 'potting soil' (top soil ?). The micro-organisms in both substrates are needed to keep the soil 'healthy' and also to keep fungus and mould at bay. These two substrates also have something that coir doesn't, nutrients needed for the plants. In the sterile tubs of UK there are rarely any plants whereas that is the complete opposite in the German enclosures where there are a multitude of different plant species being used to very good effect. With plants comes lighting, another thing missing from the UK's plastic tubs. Which, on reflection, isnt much use on a plastic and sterile tub containing a sterile substrate and half a flowerpot.

Link to German Tarantula Wiki. Subject: Tarantula substrates . . . LINK


I personly keep many Tarantulas, all of them in small tubs, containers and various sized petpals which is fine for raising slings and juveniles, for substrate I use coconut coir almost exclusively. Lately I have been thinking of doing something more elaborate for the adults and this article has given me the push needed to try something different.

After reading this article I decided to get things in motion and got in touch with a custom tank maker about ordering some arboreal tanks and after a long conversation I was advised to just order a single tank at first.
I have decided on a 10 in x 12 in x 18 in (L x W x H) as a first tank and if this proves to be a satisfactory build and meets all of my requirements then I can order the remaining tanks or I can discuss anything that I would like changed and he can make any modifications that are required. I have also decided to slowly change all of my substrate over from coir to topsoil in my sling and juvenile tubs and when the custom tanks arrive I will probably be using a 50/50 mix of topsoil and soil/mulch from my local woods. I already have lighting units from my fishtanks and so all that i will need to get is some plants. Green fingered I am not, so a search will be on for various websites regarding growing plants indoors. I have thought about the various dartfrog forums for plant information but as they mainly use bog plants and the like in their tanks I dont think it would be of any use looking. (but I might just in case)



Anyone else thinking about changing the way they keep their tarantulas ?



I have taken the liberty of showing a few naturalistic enclosures, if by posting them it breaks any forum rules please change the links or delete them.


First my collection in the multitude of plastic tubs and containers for comparision.

I know which type I prefer






and now some naturalistic enclosures.

[Aragorn Davies]

Hi peter

I am totally with the whole concept of creating micro-climates for keeping any kind of invert or lizards creatures in general. i often wonder about the need to keep Tarantulas in such sterile and benign environments, it looks awefull....i think there is a trade off with space, getting it right and keeping the need for maintenance down and getting it wrong having high maintenance and cost as a result of loss, of both T's and plants. For me personally i have brought organic soil from B & Q and i specifically asked for a soil that was organic and free of artificial and chemical ingredients, i mix this with spider life soil and it feels and looks very natural and the plants love it. add a small dash of spring tails and some woodlice and its like home. Unfortunately i think we generally have limited availability to good forest soil unless you live in areas that have large enough forest ranges to have limited effect from the encroachment of man and its ability to manipulate his environment in ways that are negative, i.e rubbish dumping, chemical contamination to name just two things that have the potential to make life for the keeper wishing to create a natural environment difficult using natural products. Thus the search for decent materials deepens the need to do lots of research which in turn helps to develop our understanding of what we try to create.

For me i see that the challenge of ownership is as much about understanding the requirements for each species in regard to creating a "home from Home" type situation rather than just ownership with no though for the environment from which the Species exists, after all, we are blessed with some artistic license and have the freedom to express ourself with creativity that can be used to increase the reality of out beloved Tarantula, which also makes the whole enclosure look like a snap shot of a small part of its natural home and thus more pleasing to the eye and mind. ooops have to go to work, i have loads more though on this will come back to it later!

[asmaa farooq]

i like the naturalistic set ups and been relatively new to the hobby i bought species i like the look of and set them up in what i guess would be a display set up with mistakes made along the way mainly vermiculite advice from some care sheets and my dad who used to keep Ts some 20years ago this was then changed for eco earth which i found i prefer alot more looks better and seems more natural
for me personally i dont fully like the tubs and set up in a tub because most ive seen you cant see the T. i understand the want of more species but i also want to see them all in a set up so they can be seen maybe im too idealistic and i know if i want to expand on my new hobby im going to have to resort to tubs at some point but i also dont get the substrate flower pot ok i kill plants at an alarming rate never had green fingers so i opt for fake things but it does look more naturalistic than just soil and pot maybe thats a womans logic but as much as id love as many Ts as you have peter rather jealous in fact of that collection id be crazy enough to want to see them in the set ups like the ones below yours. make a pretty set up and use it as a room feature if you get my meaning
i dont think either affects the T health wise and because i havent tried breeding anything i cant comment on if the set up affects the ease of getting eggs only that when ive been reading comments on different fb pages where spiders are involved i do notice alot of people commenting on species i have saying they have a pet rock T not just chilean rose but other species including avics and mexican fireleg that i have. when we get talking and comparing because ive said mine move i see them and there active good hunting etc the only difference we have is set up mine being in i wont say naturalistic set up as they are no way like what are in the pictures youve shared but a display set up and theres in a tub it does make me wonder if what the Ts are in affects there behaviour and definatly made me rethink using tubs to expand my collection and just staying small collection more display set ups and even has me considering rethinking some set ups i have including trying some different ways for chile rose see if the pet rock can be changed depending on set up i know my first was in an old fish tank 2ft by 1ft and was always walking and on display the one i have now in a 1ft by 8inch basically sits on its hide and stays still

[Michael Olsinia]

A little inspiration

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?54776-TheNatural-s-Picture-Thread

[Aragorn Davies]

A little inspiration

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/show...Picture-Thread

yep they look awesome

I am doing this one at the moment for my soon to arrive Haplopelma.sp.


I am happy with the Asplenium antiquum because its a tropical plant similar to orchids and bromiliads in such that its epiphytal but its also terrestrial. the Crassula gollum i don't like much and may change also requires different growing conditions, but, because it can be treated like bonsai and shaped it may in time make for a nice display not totally natural to the Haplopelma.sp environment though so i may yet change it,,,just got to get some moss and should be hot to trot...

[Nicola Dolby]

I think it really comes down to taste and, in answer to Peter's comment in his original post, a little to do with money as well. However, I have also heard the argument that its "Too much space" or "the tarantulas won't know the difference". Yes, its true they may not, and these enclosures may take up space, but my argument is this. If you buy tropical fish, do you put them in a tank with a nice set up, or a plastic tank full of water? I would love to have 400-500 tarantulas, but I won't buy what I can't afford to display in a posh tank. To me its part of the pleasure of keeping them (though I really wish Poecilotheria could be toilet trained, messy sods) and its nice to sit and look at the enclosures in the evening. I appreciate that many people don't see things the way I do, and I know they're not "furry human beings". But isn't that part of the fun of having pets (and yes I have named them). At the end of the day its about getting fun out of the hobby (and encouraging Exo Terra to sell their FULL range in the UK).
Vive le Spid!

[Aragorn Davies]

OK moss added sorry about the blurry picture

OK so why add these shots....

Well what i wanted to do was illustrate that i am a complete nooob, man compared to some of you guys i am still in nappies, figuratively speaking lol, it doesn't take much effort to create something that looks a little natural and is far more pleasing to the eye, also in the process of looking after the Tarantula that will be housed in here i will have to care a little for its environment. This set up didn't take much time to create neither did it cost much for the plants and soil £10, but thats enough soil for about another two enclosures which is good as i have two more 30x30x45's which will be housing arborials namely pokies. The main cost is the Housing but most off the effort is in trying to create something that looks just a little bit natural, now when i look at my lovely coloured T i will see its blues and greens contrast against a nice colourfull background and it will give me that sense of bliss knowing i created it a nice home...if it turns out to be a pet hole well at least i have a nice bottle garden lol....

Further to peters original post and nicoladolby post, for sure its definitely a matter of taste and absolutely down to cost no doubt,,,,but what about creativity or effort, for my slings i have them in plastic tubs, which cost like £3 or something for 4 tubs of varying sizes, i needed to drill air holes add a plant and some soil a retreat and job done for next to nothing and yet they still look OK imho...and if the Tarantula cannot stand up and say cheers for taking the time to make it a little more comfortable doesn't mean that we don't have to make a little effort. They seem to be hardy creatures that have stood the tests of time no doubt surly its on us if we choose to provide for them to at least give them a something to show for the millions of years of evolution that really hasn't changed them that much...mind if i had 300 i may be singing from a different song book lol

[Peter Roach]

A little inspiration

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/show...Picture-Thread

Its not so much inspiration that I need, its more like I need a kick up the backside to get moving
I have ventured into naturalistic enclosures before, when I kept Dendrobates, Gecko's and dwarf chameleons but never for tarantulas.

Here are a few photo's from a few years ago.

[Aragorn Davies]

Its not so much inspiration that I need, its more like I need a kick up the backside to get moving
I have ventured into naturalistic enclosures before, when I kept Dendrobates, Gecko's and dwarf chameleons but never for tarantulas.

Here are a few photo's from a few years ago.

They are just superb.....that's defoe inspiration, come one peter let's see some more creations

[Peter Roach]

They are just superb.....that's defoe inspiration, come one peter let's see some more creations

I've got one tank on order to see if it fits my expectations if it does then another 9 will be ordered.
I cant let my artistic side loose until i have something to work with LOL

[asmaa farooq]

peter they are brilliant. i need a whole room for my spiders and there tanks i think so i can go a bit OTT. i do agree with nicoladolby i like a tank that looks ok to have out on display so when the spiders gone in hiding it still looks like it has a purpose. cost is an issue the exoterra tanks are great but costly but i do prefer them they just look good and im hoping to go buy another one this week i have the mexican red knee ordered fro TSS and a tempory set up but now im thinking how creative can i get with its permanent home and will it acheive any result thats even close to the ones already posted im guessing not as anyone who knows me can tell you live plants i cannot keep alive ive even been known to kill a cactus but thats not going to stop me looking at trying to find fake plants to match what the real plants should be. the only limit is my imagination

[Andrew Oels-Wallis]

I now have all my adult Ts (15) in carefully displayed House of Spiders enclosures, using coir, fake plants, but real wood hides and details. The only T I have in a natural enclosure is Tilly, my A. versicolor, which has real growing plants too. I used potting soil and vermiculite.

I suppose I felt that the more natural the setting, even when you don't see the T, the enclosures still look attractive. Almost like a terrarium (which I've always liked), but I kinda wish I'd used real plants in all the enclosures now.

Does anyone know if plants will live in coir, as I could add some of these lovely small plants that I've seen here in to the mix too?

I'll have to take some photos and update my first thread with them all soon. The slings are in smaller pots in a warmed cupboard as they don't need the attention as the big ones.

[Ray Gabriel]

Well we have an H. incei in a planted up tank which has done nothing while I have bred a fifth to a quarter of the species in the pet trade over the past x years in plastic boxes.

Ray

[Peter Roach]

Well we have an H. incei in a planted up tank which has done nothing while I have bred a fifth to a quarter of the species in the pet trade over the past x years in plastic boxes.

Ray

Ah yes, but you are not exactly the average keeper are you Ray ! ! !

What are your thoughts on the subject of naturalistic enclosures ?

A good thing, a bad thing or just indifferent ?

[Ray Gabriel]

Hi Pete,

I think they are a waste of time and money, the more complicated the enclosure the more care it needs, one of the pics had Ivy in it which is toxic, so cricket eats ivy spider eats cricket spider may die (i dont know but wouldnt take the risk).

When breeding spiders (ones with a dry season) you might kill the plants which means you have to replant again, causing more disturbance, to much disturbance and less chance of an eggsac or greater chance of the eggsac eaten by being disturbed,

Lots of hiding places means more places for dead crickets to go un-noticed attracting Phorid flies which are the main suspect for transmitting nematode worms.

But it is up to the individual, you can give advice then it is up to the person to take it or leave it, I know how I keep mine and have had lots of breeding succsess.

And many Sericopelma sp I have found have been on barren roadside embankments, in fact many of the 16 species seen on this trip have been on barren roadside embankments, so my plastic boxes are pretty naturalistic

Ray