a few fly issues and some question

[the ming cu]

Perhaps it is just over worry of me, but better ask than sorry.

I pet two avicularia versicolor which I pet since they are sling. I live in tropical country and I keep my T in a hot room, around 27 - 29 C. I pet it in plastics enclosure with a few plastic plant decoration, no substrate used, a small waterdish (both of my T seem to dump what they ate in water dish, does your T did this too?) and air holes which I cover by thin clothes so that flies cannot enter. But it did enter in one of my T enclosure. it is small flies. In another cage where flies didn't enter, the Tarantula are eating fine and she eat the small roach until it dries out. but in the other cage where flies enter, she just eat half of them, and I found out later day the roach has rot and stink (Sometime I forgot to check the next day, so it is 2 days or 3 days after feeding). With the flies pupae far from the roach dead body but on my spider nest, but not on the spider body (Or so I think). Is it a common behavior for not suck the prey until it dries? or there's something wrong with my T? (hopefully not...) It is happening not only once, but several times. I did clean the cage but the flies coming again.

My tarantula eating habit is around 3 days or 1 week or 2 weeks (3 days or 5 days or 1 week if the prey small, 2 week if the prey is bigger than them). They would eat anything even if it is bigger than their abdomen size. They are 5 cm now. Usually I give them small madagaskar roach which I breed myself. But some time ago, I lack of food. All of small roach has depleted and juvenile roach around 6 cm and adults are what's left. So I fed both of my T 6 cm roach. They eat it fine. But now, one of my T didn't even suck the 3 cm roach dry. Why? And I wish to know what kind of flies I face. flies encyclopedia? I don't know if I can get a good picture of the flies, as it is very small (mine is not a really great camera).

Oh yes, what is the best age to mate avicularia versicolor?

[the ming cu]

bump, help please?

[Peter Roach]

It sounds like you have phorid flies which are attracted to dead or decomposing animal matter which in your case is the uneaten cockroach.

Here is something that i wrote a short time ago.

There are two types of flies that it could be, fungus gnats or phorid flies.

Fungus gnats are a nuisance but generally nothing more. They feed on and multiply in damp organic substrate and have probably come in with the plantation soil and moss. They are fairly easy to eradicate by simply changing the substrate to get rid of any eggs/maggots/pupa and letting the new substrate dry out in all of your tanks to kill any new eggs/maggots/pupa which will be laid by the free flying adults.
This means all of the tanks and NO damp spots until they have all gone and for a few weeks after just to make sure.

Phorid flies are a bigger and more serious problem and can sometimes kill tarantulas by laying eggs on the spiders.
Again, totally change the substrate and let the new substrate dry out while there are still flies around the spiders.

The simplest and easiest way of telling them apart is the fungus gnats will fly away immediately when disturbed and the phorid flies will run around erratically instead of flying away (their other name is Scuttle fly)

I have had fungus gnat infestations a few times and usually get rid of them in a few weeks without no real problems. I now generally have an almost bone dry substrate except for a small area around the water bowl (when used) for all of my spiders and no more gnats. ! ! !

I've got my first experience of phorid flies at the moment which came in via a newly bought spider (first time in 30 years of keeping T's ) I've changed all the substrate and bought some non-toxic sticky fly papers and have hung 5 up in the spider shed. After about a week the fly numbers have definitely dropped by a large amount but I'll be changing the substrate again next week and getting some new fly papers to hang up and will be doing this probably every 2 weeks until they have all gone.

You MUST clean up and remove the cockroaches body after the spider has eaten it.
I would clean out the spiders cage, wash the cage and plastic plants in hot soapy water but make sure that you wash the soap off properly afterwards.

To me it seems like you are feeding your avic too much, all they need is one small cockroach every 7-10 days but if you feed them a large cockroach then don't feed them for about 3 or 4 weeks after. Also don't forget that they will stop eating when they are near to moulting.

and yes a lot of tarantulas either do a poop in their water or drop the cockroaches body in the water

[the ming cu]

oh gosh... is there any sign if the fly had already lay their eggs on tarantula? like, stop eating or slow movement? I hope mine didn't have that parasite.

How long does it take for phorid flies egg to hatch?

where the phorid flies lies their eggs? inside or outside the body?

Uh, I think my cockroaches have phorid flies infestation.... the adults have open ventilation while the baby roaches cage have close ventilation (the ventilation is covered by cloth). but lately, even in the baby cage, there's dead found. imagining i have to "bath" hundreds of my roaches doesn't appeal me very well...

is there any way to get rid the egg from the body? I should change the roaches cage to close ventilation..

oh yeah, is it okay to use hamster bathing sand to bath my roaches? I don't know what's the ingredient, the label don't say any ingredients on it.

[Peter Roach]

oh gosh... is there any sign if the fly had already lay their eggs on tarantula? like, stop eating or slow movement? I hope mine didn't have that parasite.

It is very unlikely that the flies will lay their eggs on your tarantula unless they are dead or seriously ill, which of course you would have noticed.

How long does it take for phorid flies egg to hatch?

Depending on the temperature but generally about 24 hours

where the phorid flies lies their eggs? inside or outside the body?

Outside the body

Uh, I think my cockroaches have phorid flies infestation.... the adults have open ventilation while the baby roaches cage have close ventilation (the ventilation is covered by cloth). but lately, even in the baby cage, there's dead found. imagining i have to "bath" hundreds of my roaches doesn't appeal me very well...

You have your roaches separated ????

oh yeah, is it okay to use hamster bathing sand to bath my roaches? I don't know what's the ingredient, the label don't say any ingredients on it.

Probably not, I wouldnt.

I have an article saved about florid flies but unfortunately i cant remember where I found it.

The Phorid fly breeds primarily in and feeds on moist decaying organic matter. The reproductive potential of these flies is tremendous and very large numbers of them may appear in a short time. Adult flies are strong fliers, having been known to travel as far as 6 miles within a 24 hour period. Phorid flies are found throughout the world and are a serious pest when found in food producing, food handling or food serving facilities. Phorid fly larvae have been found in the open wounds of patients in nursing homes and hospitals. Fermenting materials such as fruit, dirty garbage containers, rotten vegetables or slime in drains are just a few of their favourite breeding and feeding places.




Phorid Fly Life History
Phorid flies develop by egg, larva, pupa and adult. The female will lay about 20 eggs at a time and will lay about 40 eggs in a 12 hour period. Each adult female phorid will lay approximately 500 eggs. The tiny eggs are deposited on or near the surface of decaying organic matter. Larvae emerge in 24 hours and feed for 8 to 16 days. The Phorid fly larvae then crawl to a drier spot to pupate. The life cycle from egg to adult can be completed in as little as 14 days (under ideal conditions) but may take as long as 37 days to complete their cycle.
Adult Phorid flies are fairly common in many habitats, but are most abundant about decaying plant and animal matter. When searching for Phorid fly breeding sources, remember that the larva can only survive in decaying organic matter that is moist. The first obvious place to check is where any fruits or vegetables

[Christian Elowsky]

I'd advise keeping a very close eye on your tarantulas. Many phorids are detritivores, but some are parasitoids as noted. Since you're in Java, I expect you're going to see things none of us have any experience with at all.

Here are a few posts on the topic on ATS, the posts by "Maggot" are the most important.

http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17827&start=20

Personally, I'd advise you using microscreening to keep them out, once you get them cleaned up, things like nylon work. And you'll need to keep an eye on your roaches that you're using as feeders.

Please update us as time passes and good luck.

[the ming cu]

yes, I kept my roaches in different tank. Because I notice there's some baby roaches that is too afraid to go down and get the food, thus die because of dehydration. Perhaps they are too afraid because of the noise the adult making. I don't know for sure. Not all of the baby has that kind behavior, only some of them. So I separate them. Since then, i do not find small baby roach dry remain in the cage.

I have already micro screening my tarantula's cage, my baby roaches' cage, but haven't with my adult cage. I will make it this week. I will monitor it every day. Perhaps if i take out all the dead and sick roach every single day, it will help cleanse their environment and keep the flies larvae that's inside the body of the roaches won't make it outside the body and pupae?

Strange thing is, although I have micro screen my tarantula's cage, there's still flies inside the cage like i told in my first post which happened months ago. If that's the case, is it possible if the roaches i gave him has already have the eggs on them, and then after my T kill the roach, eat half of it and throw it out and then the flies eggs hatch?

Or is it possible that the roaches i gave my T has already eaten inside, my T kill it and eat half of it. Realize it's rotten inside then throw it out? But if that's the case, the roach will be immobile, paralyze, weak even before i gave it to my T isn't it? I don't think I gave my T a weak immobilize roaches...

Or perhaps the flies got in when I open the cage and didn't notice it... But it's unlikely since I do not visit my T after 3 days at that time. the time line goes like this: first day, i fed my T with roach. 3rd day I visit it, and find out the roach dead and there's flies larvae walking around inside the cage. if the flies got in when i didn't notice, it has to be the second day, right?

Any other possibility?

Now my tarantulas seem fine. except one who refuse to eat, probably will molt soon. it enter it's second or third month of not eating although it's still 3 years old. It's normal, right? somehow, it's longer than before.

But my roaches, yeah.. several of them die today. I found 0 death sometime in rare day. but usually i found 1 death/day in adult cage.

Assuming the flies has 37 days to reach adult hood, my Ts seem fine. i should worry about the roaches then.

thank you for all the information, and yes I will update on them.

[Christian Elowsky]

If all of the seams are very tight, then yes, the roaches may bring in eggs. As for roaches dying, are they adults or immatures? Many people feed off adult males first, as they die much quicker than the females and can constantly fight with each other.

I can not give you exact answers because I have no idea what species of phorids you are dealing with, there are roughly 4,000 world wide! As far as I know, the roaches could have maggots on them or the maggots maybe migratory... there are too many possibilities. I'm sorry I can not be of more help.

In any case, keep an eye on the spiders, which it seems you're doing anyway with your observations.

Good luck.

Christian

[the ming cu]

If all of the seams are very tight, then yes, the roaches may bring in eggs. As for roaches dying, are they adults or immatures? Many people feed off adult males first, as they die much quicker than the females and can constantly fight with each other.

I can not give you exact answers because I have no idea what species of phorids you are dealing with, there are roughly 4,000 world wide! As far as I know, the roaches could have maggots on them or the maggots maybe migratory... there are too many possibilities. I'm sorry I can not be of more help.

In any case, keep an eye on the spiders, which it seems you're doing anyway with your observations.

Good luck.

Christian

Perhaps there's several adult male dying among what I've found but I'm not really sure since I just throw the body in a "yucky mood" and didn't pay much attention to the gender. there's immature found dead and also adult female, i think. Think of it, is a 4 cm male roach considered to be adult already? I know there are male roach reaching to the size of 10-12 cm. But this... 4 cm with horn? So small..I'm not sure if it's adult.

What I give to my T at that time was probably from adult cage (I don't really remember, it was months ago), although I usually give them from baby (immature) cage. But I remember there's several time I give them from the adult cage.

If the egg is laid on the outside of the body, is it washable if I wash my roach with water before giving it?

Ah, yes, the seam is very tight. I use organdi. it's tight yet it's so thin so the air can flow and make the cage not too humid.

It's okay, thank you for replying .

[Christian Elowsky]

Which roach species? See, once again, I am of no use. As for eggs or maggots on the roaches, I doubt you could completely wash the roaches without killing them or introducing something to your tarantulas (soaps for instance).

Maybe someone who's been to your part of the world will chime in.

I know it's aways from you, but the Malaysian Tarantula Society might have more advice for tropical issues. You can find them here:

http://www.mtsociety.com/forums/

Sadly the ATS and BTS are in the wrong hemisphere, even though we're both international groups.

Christian

[the ming cu]

If I wash the roaches for 1 or 2 seconds, they do fine, of course i wouldn't use soap lol.
it's madagaskar hissing roach

oh, I will check there.

Actually, in Indonesia, there's local forum, but they are of not much help. I get more information in international forum than local forum. If I ask in local forum, all I get is junk, unimportant and unrelated answer like "Is it difficult to raise tarantula?" or "Hi there!" LOL. So your answer is more related than their answer, for that, I really appreciated.