smithi b spiderling not eating

[sean grey]

hi there i am new to tarantula keeping and have a smithi b spiderling ( aprox half inch leg span ) it is kept in a small pot aprox 2 inch x 2 inch i spray a little water on the inside of the tub once a week. i have placed the tub in a viv with a heat mat on the back but the tempreture dosent seem to get above 24 degrees. i have had the spider ( charlie ) as my daughter thought this was a good name as we dont know the sex for 4 weeks . i was told that it had eaten a week before i bought it but has not eaten since. i have been trying to feed it once a week with pin head crickets to no avail. i have tried live and dead crickets but it is not interested. i have read that spiderlings should eat once or twice a weak and i understand that it may be due to molt. it looks prety healthy and one third of its adbomen is black. should i just leave things as they are any advise would be gratefully recieved. thanks

[Craig Toon]

Sean.
It sounds to me like the simthi is in pre molt, as you have mentioned 3 quaters of the abdomen has got a dark spot.
If it is in pre molt the simthi will start to produce a molting mat or it may have already done so. I would give it a couple of weeks with no food, but make sure that water is avalible for the smithi to drink.

Hope this helps craig

[sean grey]

thanks craig .
should i spray a little water on the side of the pot once a week or more often.
also will the spiderling have hairs after it molts as at the moment it is very bald lol.
also the temprature in the tank is between 74 and 80 degrees is this ok
thanks sean

[Stanley A. Schultz]

hi there i am new to tarantula keeping ...

First,

WELCOME TO THE HOBBY!

WELCOME TO THIS FORUM!

Then, read the following:

Stan's Rant. READ AND HEED THE WARNINGS! READ THE BOOKS!

Myths.... Follow the sublinks.

That should get you started on the right foot.

... and have a smithi b spiderling ( aprox half inch leg span ) ...

What does the "b" in "smithi b" mean?

... i spray a little water on the inside of the tub once a week. ...

There's nothing magic about spraying, and there may be some good reasons why you shouldn't do it. Just dripping a few drops of tap water in will have the same effect. Does the substrate really dry out that quickly? Perhaps you need to restrict ventilation a little more to slow the drying down.

Can you arrange photos of your setup and the tarantula? We "LUVS" photos!

...i have placed the tub in a viv with a heat mat on the back but the tempreture dosent seem to get above 24 degrees. ...

Not to worry. 24 C is just fine.

...i have had the spider ( charlie ) as my daughter thought this was a good name as we dont know the sex for 4 weeks . i was told that it had eaten a week before i bought it but has not eaten since. ...

Does this mean that it hasn't eaten in 4 weeks or more? Or, am I getting the various times confused?

...i have been trying to feed it once a week with pin head crickets to no avail. i have tried live and dead crickets but it is not interested. i have read that spiderlings should eat once or twice a weak and i understand that it may be due to molt. it looks prety healthy and one third of its adbomen is black. should i just leave things as they are ...

A baby tarantula of that size should not take longer than about 4 or 5 days to molt, not 4 or 5 weeks. We definitely need photos of both the tarantula and its container ("pot"). Use the best camera you have available (many cell phones are surprisingly good), but good focus is more important than tight close-ups.

Enjoy your little 8-legged marvel!

[Peter Roach]

Also pinhead crickets are waaaaaaaaaay too small for a sling that size. It will be able to take no 2 or3 crickets with ease.
What substrate are you using ? How dry/damp is it ?

[sean grey]

thanks for the warm welcome stan. first i must say im having trouble trying to reply using quotes lol.
i have read stans rants. i have also read quick and easy tarantula care also tarantulas and other arachnids and have just started reading the tarantula keepers guide but as i have only had these books for two days there is a lot to absorb.

smithi b was meant to be b. smithi sorry.

the substrate in the pot does feel very dry not sure what it is. i have been spraying a very small amount of water once a week so there is a small damp patch for the spider to drink from. the pot it is in has 8 small pinholes in the lid.

i will post some photos of the spider and its pot and its enclosure after this post as i have to do this from my phone.

the spider has not eaten in the 4 weeks i have had it. i was told by the shop that it had eaten the week before i bought it.

i was keeping it on top of the fridge until two weeks ago when i began looking after my friends chilean rose which is in a viv i have had the heat mat on the back of the viv and put my spiders pot in the corner at the back. i must say that the heat mat is only warm to touch.

i will now try and post some pics

thanks again sean

[Peter Roach]

Have you ever noticed how fridges shudder, clonk and vibrate ?
That is one of the last places that i would keep any animal especially one that basically feels the world around it by vibrations !!
A 2' x 2' isnt exactly giving the smithi a chance to move about a lot, maybe moving it to something like a deli-pot or a small tupperware container might make a difference.

An old photo of a B smithi in the smallest container that i use for its size.




The next size container that the smithi would be moved to (B boehmei in photo)

[sean grey]

here are some pics hopefully.

the first photo is to show the size of the pot.
the second is when i first bought the spiderling
also when i first got it
mistake lol
as it is now with wood removed ( not sure if i should have removed it but can always put it back
again as it is now
the enclosure it is in now.

sorry i dont know how to get bigger photos.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

Have you ever noticed how fridges shudder, clonk and vibrate ? That is one of the last places that i would keep any animal especially one that basically feels the world around it by vibrations !! ...

This is something I'd never thought about! Funny how we can miss the obvious things, no? In North America and especially with the newer refrigerators, there is very little obvious vibration and noise. So, my knee jerk reaction is to discount this concern. But, it must be remembered that tarantulas, especially the babies, live in a completely different world than we do. Because of their small size they probably can sense high frequency vibrations that we can't, and low frequency vibrations could sound/feel like major earthquakes. And, of course, their sensory apparatuses are so radically different that we can only guess or fantasize about what they really can sense.

Still, I've never heard anyone complain that the vibrations might be an issue except for the odd heavy metal rocker who wants to keep his tarantulas on top of his speakers!

This is something to ask about when enthusiasts come to us for help if for no other reason than to assess just how important a concern it might be.

... A 2' x 2' isnt exactly giving the smithi a chance to move about a lot, maybe moving it to something like a deli-pot or a small tupperware container might make a difference. ...

The photos that Sean presented show that for the time being the tarantula probably has enough room. And, since B. smithi are notoriously slow growing, this probably won't be a concern for some time to come.

... An old photo of a B smithi in the smallest container that i use for its size.

...


The next size container that the smithi would be moved to (B boehmei in photo)

...

Peter, I notice there are no water dishes in those photos. Do you normally supply them with water dishes?

[Stanley A. Schultz]

here are some pics hopefully. ...
...
...sorry i dont know how to get bigger photos.

They're okay!

I can't see anything wrong with the way you're keeping it. Ventilation is restricted okay. The tarantula is nice and chubby.

As someone else suggested, you might try feeding it slightly larger crickets. The rule of thumb (which half of the enthusiasts ignore, which tells you how important a rule it is!) is that the prey item should not be larger than the tarantula's abdomen. So presumably, you can give the tarantula significantly larger crickets.

It's still young enough that it hasn't developed a full body covering of hair, so you should be able to tell well in advance when it's about to molt. See here for a description of what to expect.

The only thing that I might suggest is that you change the substrate. Note that what you're using isn't bad, but it's a good place to start and it's a relatively benign thing to do. If possible, switch to a different substrate, e.g., horticultural peat from a garden center. Again, not because it's guaranteed to solve the problem. It's just a "shot in the dark" that may trigger its feeding. Here are a few hints for dealing with substrate and tarantulas.

Lastly, your method for watering the tarantula and its pot would seem to be working okay. You may change that if you wish, but I would only change one thing at a time. Two variables in an experiment makes for a very bad experiment! B. smithi are among the large number of babies that can adapt to a dry cage earlier than my "party line" recommendations. I always try to err on the conservative side for fear of being responsible for killing someone's little pet.

A note about B. smithi: These are rather slow growing tarantulas that live for decades. Unless power fed, the males may take 12 or 15 years to mature! And, the females will live 25 to ?? years. We mark the beginning of this hobby at 1958 when Dr. William J. Baerg first wrote his little book, The Tarantula. And, B. smithi weren't breed with any regularity until after 1985 when they were listed in Appendix II of the CITES Treaty. Thus, the very first B. smithi bred in captivity are only now BEGINNING to get old! So, we still don't know how long the captive bred ones will live. Are you prepared for a pet that may live 30 years? It's almost like getting married!

Please get back to us on this same thread with any news, good or bad, that you may have as time progresses. Enjoy your little 8-legged mystery!

[sean grey]

thanks again for all the help and advice. just a couple of questions.
1 should i still be tring it with food ?
2 how will i get the spider out of its pot to change the substrate ?
3 should i put the wood back in ?

also i am still a little bit confused about the molting. is my spider coming close to a molt or is the black on the adbomen the urticating hairs growing?

thanks sean

[Peter Roach]

And, since B. smithi are notoriously slow growing, this probably won't be a concern for some time to come.

I must disagree with this.

I have found that B smithi (and most Brachypelma's in general) grow at a much faster rate than people say and that they are not slow growers at all.

I have 2 sizes growing on at the moment.

Example 1)

I bought 3 x 1 inch (leg span) on May '11 at the BTS, I sold them this May at the BTS at 3 1/2 inches . That is a growth rate of 2 1/2 inches in exactly 12 months.

Example 2)

I bought 6 x 1cm slings in October '11, they are now between 1/2 in to 3/4in leg span and a few are in premoult now. I fully expect them to be between 3-4 inches in 12 months time.

I also have (I recently sold most of them at BTS) B albopilosum, boehmei, albiceps, auratum, schroederi, emilia and vagans.
All except the schroederi are showing the same growth rate as the smithi's but as the schroederi is almost a dwarf species this is expected. I also think that boehmei is the fastest growing of the Brachypelma group by a long way.



All of my tarantulas are fed once per week with an appropriate sized cockroach. I firmly believe in the old saying that "you are what you eat" so my 2 cockroach colonies are fed a high protein dry food (powdered kitten food) and fresh fruit and veg every day and it has been noticed by several friends that my Tarantulas seem to grow much faster and bigger then theirs in the same time period.
One friend and myself bought 30 P ornata (15 each) at this years BTS and we have agreed to see how much difference there is in size in 12 months time. I fully expect my specimens to be between 25 to 50% larger than his and will be extremely surprised if they are not.

Peter, I notice there are no water dishes in those photos. Do you normally supply them with water dishes?

No, I do not supply water dishes to any slings or juveniles as they are fed weekly and are generally kept on very slightly damp substrate (which is wetted weekly) all this I believe negates the use of water dishes. Adults do not have water dishes either but I will generally supply a water dish to a specimen that is in premoult or is on a lengthy fast.

After all, how many little water dishes full of nice clean fresh water do you see wandering around the wilds of the world ?!

[Stanley A. Schultz]

I must disagree with this. ...

Please do! Varying opinions are one of the major ways that the hobby progresses.

... I have found that B smithi (and most Brachypelma's in general) grow at a much faster rate than people say and that they are not slow growers at all.

I have 2 sizes growing on at the moment. ...

I bought 3 x 1 inch (leg span) on May '11 at the BTS, I sold them this May at the BTS at 3 1/2 inches . That is a growth rate of 2 1/2 inches in exactly 12 months.

...

... I fully expect my specimens to be between 25 to 50% larger than his and will be extremely surprised if they are not. ...

At what temperature are you keeping them?

... No, I do not supply water dishes to any slings or juveniles as they are fed weekly and are generally kept on very slightly damp substrate (which is wetted weekly) all this I believe negates the use of water dishes. Adults do not have water dishes either but I will generally supply a water dish to a specimen that is in premoult or is on a lengthy fast. ...

You are not the first enthusiast who has said this, and I don't have a big problem with that. But, I worry about newbies who don't yet have a feeling for how to care for a tarantula, and know where their limits are. And, I worry about the time when life gets too complicated and you don't have the time to lavish almost constant, intense care on your pets. I know that sounds silly now, but you wouldn't be the first person who suffered losses or had to dispose of a collection because of other issues. It's not a crisis until it's a crisis.

... After all, how many little water dishes full of nice clean fresh water do you see wandering around the wilds of the world ?!

I've heard this comment many times before, and it's outright fallacious. We are not keeping our tarantulas "around the wilds of the world," they're trapped in a completely artificial habitat where almost all the normal laws of biology and survival have been subverted or suspended. You can't use that as a rational argument.

And, I point out that more than 99% of wild tarantulas probably die before they're old enough to reproduce. And, "Mother Nature" doesn't have to pay a day's or week's wages for each one. They're all essentially free, and every one that dies has another 99 waiting in line to replace it, again for free. Do as you will, but I for one am not willing to use that philosophy when caring for my valuable pets.

Sorry. You'll have to find another rationalization. This one simply doesn't float.

Having said that, and not wanting to get involved in another flame war, what you're doing now is working. I wouldn't change anything. But, I would worry just a little about a "Plan B," just in case.

Enjoy your little 8-legged wonders!

[sean grey]

try again lol [QUOTE=sean grey;58560]thanks again for all the help and advice. just a couple of questions.
1 should i still be tring it with food ?
2 how will i get the spider out of its pot to change the substrate ?
3 should i put the wood back in ?

also i am still a little bit confused about the molting. is my spider coming close to a molt or is the black on the adbomen the urticating hairs
thanks sean.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

try again lol ...

Sorry. It got late and I wandered off to bed! Old folks do that a lot.

... 1 should i still be tring it with food ? ...

Yes. Maybe once a week throw in one cricket approximately the size of its abdomen. You can leave it with the tarantula at least overnight. I never bothered removing the crickets unless the tarantula went into premolt (i.e., bare skin turned black). Or, if the cricket died, which does happen once in a while.

While a tarantula is rolled over onto its back and actually molting, it's pretty helpless. And, there have been incidents where hungry crickets took advantage of the situation and chewed off a leg or even killed the tarantula. But, once the spider is upright it's easily capable of defending itself, and as soon as its exoskeleton has hardened enough it's the cricket that's in grave danger again.

... 2 how will i get the spider out of its pot to change the substrate ? ...

Herd it into some sort of safe, holding container with a teaspoon or any other, handy implement. Just be gentle, however.

... 3 should i put the wood back in ? ...

For the time being, no. It does no good for the tarantula, and we want to reduce the caging to the bare essentials for now. Later, after this little hiccup has passed you can install something that the tarantula can hide in (a.k.a., a "hide").

... is my spider coming close to a molt ...

Not close enough that you should be concerned. When that time arrives the entire abdomen will turn very dark, even black. This period is called "premolt." For a baby about the size of yours, it should then molt within 3 or 4 days. Mature tarantulas normally take a week or two, but a few of the larger species and those that are very old are sometimes in premolt for a month or two.

... or is the black on the adbomen the urticating hairs ...

Indeed, the black on your baby's abdomen are its urticating bristles. The formal term for them is urticating "setae," (pronounced SET-ee or SEE-tee) but enthusiasts often don't like to use the formal terms for some strange reason. Anyway, "bristles" has been in use for the last 200 or 300 years, so it's not only firmly entrenched in the jargon, but it has a long enough history to almost be considered a formal term. Tarantulas do not possess hair. Only mammals possess hair.

The next time your baby molts (maybe the time after that), its entire abdomen will be covered with black bristles, but the urticating bristles may still be recognizable because of a different texture or luster. In some other species (e.g., Grammostola rosea, the Chilean rose tarantula) these are quite obvious as a so-called "mirror patch" on the top, center of the abdomen. See here and here for examples. (I note with dismay that the Wikipedia site calls them hair! )

Once the entire tarantula is covered with bristles, you will no longer be able to tell when it's in premolt. UNLESS some of those urticating bristles have fallen off or been brushed off to expose the bare skin underneath. In these individuals the bare skin will turn black during premolt and signal an impending molt. Note as well that the loss of the urticating bristles is not an indicator that the tarantula is suffering some undue stress. They're very loosely attached and many merely fall off spontaneously. And, if the tarantula should become irritated and brush a few off, it's no big deal. Newbies often stress out over this. Tarantulas have been doing this for millions of years with no lasting harm.

Lastly, most New World tarantulas possess urticating bristles. Most of these species have them on the top, center or rear of their abdomens, but a few (e.g., genus Ephebopus and Avicularia) have them elsewhere. And, no Old World tarantulas possess urticating bristles. They normally do not develop a bare patch, so we can't use that trick to recognize premolt in them.

Understanding a tarantula and caring for it aren't as simple as tuning your television. They're a lot more complicated, more like programming your video recorder!