How many of you keep your t`s on dry substrate?

[Pekka Hiekkapelto]

Hello everyone! I`m new to this forum. From Sweden and I have been keeping t`s for about 6-7 years total now. Got about 50 species at the moment and growing.

I just wanted to hear with you "experts" how many of you keep tropical spiders dry with maybe only water dish? I have been keeping all my t`s , except desert spiders pretty moist always but I always get mold, fungus and sometimes even mites from food rests lying in moisture etc.. Now when the collection is getting bigger its hard to watch every enclouser every day just to see if there is mold or other problems. I am now going to dry everything out (juveniles and up), get more ventilation and see how they react to this. I talked to a big german dealer who had success and never problems with keeping all kind of t`s bone dry, and he doesn`t even use a water dishes! But I feel if the subsrate is dry atleast they should have access to fresh water , especially nearing a molt..

I`s humidity overrated and does it matter less when it`s CB spiders compared to WC? Does the rules change again when trying to breed and get sacs?

Thanks for answers!

[Stanley A. Schultz]

Hello everyone! I`m new to this forum. ...

Well! Welcome to this forum!

... I just wanted to hear with you "experts" how many of you keep tropical spiders dry with maybe only water dish? ...

Perhaps this will be of interest to you.

[Ray Hale]

Bet he's glad he asked Stan.LOL

Good work my friend.

Ray Hale
BTS Committee

[Michael Rawding]

Great read, thanks for sharing

[Pekka Hiekkapelto]

Very interresting read Stan! Thank you!

[K Smith]

I'd like to chip in and ask a question Stan regarding humidity If I may? I've got your book (my bible, TKG3) and use the dry substrate with a water dish as you reccomend, for all my tarantulas and they all do perfectly well. Both breeding and just as terrarium pets. Tropical species to desert species they'r all kept this way. But, as you mention in your book and on the link that you have put on this thread which I've just read, it states that there are exceptions to this 'rule' namely the swamp dwellers such as the one species i'd like your opinion on. It states that the swamp dwellers MUST be kept on damp subsrate, almost swampy, as you state in your book. And you list E.murinus and T.blondi as examples. On the link it states: 'Some species of tarantula that ordinarily do not ever develop a completely waterproof epicuticle, the so-called "swamp dwellers."

Now what confuses me is that i've kept my Ephebopus murinus which was wild caught as a sub adult female for 3 years now, and always have from buying her, kept her on effectively dry substrate with just a water dish just like all my others. I trickle water once every two weeks down one side of the tank to filter through the substrate to give her a drink which she does use. I use this same method for watering for my P.muticus that never ever comes out of her burrow. The E.murinus has her burrow 7 inches down and is seen every night at the burrow entrance. She is healthy and active.

So is this rule that swamp dwellers MUST be kept damp and humid set in stone, or is the captive husbandry of E.murinus variable in that they can be kept as all my other spiders are? Of course she may get some humidity from the water that reaches the bottom before it evaporates, but she is kept in no way damp, or in damp substrate as reccomended. I didnt gradually adjust her to these conditions either, I've kept her like this during this time and as I said she was wild caught. It was sort of an experiment for myself to see if all tarantulas can be kept in the same conditions in captivity and thrive, and it does look that way in my experience. (Obviously I don't have ALL tarantulas but of the 38 species that I own, they are all kept the same way, dry substrate and a water dish.)

Id love to hear your thoughts on this. It causes confusion for me every time I refer to that section '5 paths to nirvana' in your book due to the fact I've kept Ephebopus murinus in an arid set up all this time. I have 2 'juviniles' of this species also kept the same way and are doing fine also.

Many thanks for your time,
Kyle

[Stanley A. Schultz]

I'd like to chip in and ask a question Stan regarding humidity If I may? I've got your book (my bible, TKG3) and use the dry substrate with a water dish as you reccomend, for all my tarantulas and they all do perfectly well. Both breeding and just as terrarium pets. Tropical species to desert species they'r all kept this way. ...

Ah, a true convert! I should start a religious TV program with the great god Arachnopelma, no? (Just kidding! Just kidding!)

... But, as you mention in your book and on the link that you have put on this thread which I've just read, it states that there are exceptions to this 'rule' namely the swamp dwellers such as the one species i'd like your opinion on. It states that the swamp dwellers MUST be kept on damp subsrate, almost swampy, as you state in your book. And you list E.murinus and T.blondi as examples. On the link it states: 'Some species of tarantula that ordinarily do not ever develop a completely waterproof epicuticle, the so-called "swamp dwellers."

...
So is this rule that swamp dwellers MUST be kept damp and humid set in stone, or is the captive husbandry of E.murinus variable in that they can be kept as all my other spiders are? ...

No, the rule is not cast in concrete. I'm just trying to be extra careful that I'm not endangering someone's prize pet. Taking the ultraconservative route, as it were. If you continue reading you will come to a passage that mentions that some advanced enthusiasts have been working on acclimatizing many of those species to drier quarters with some success. And, captive born and raised swamp dwellers (e.g., T. blondi) apparently seem to adjust to a drier habitat automagically. This subject is addressed in Humidity, Another myth....

The species of Ephebopus apparently adjust much more easily to a drier habitat than T. blondi, and I think that may be the explanation. As a parallel example, there was a time when the hobby was absolutely convinced that H. lividum was a swamp dweller. But then a few enlightened enthusiasts (among them Robert (Spider Bob) Breene of the ATS) figured out that humidity is not the key to keeping them. It's the ability to burrow that matters. And, this is further reinforced by the photos published here. (Scroll down the page, looking at the captions to the various photos.)

BTW, we both need to get copies of the two papers mentioned by Zoltan here. I know both Sam Marshall and Rick West. I'm pretty sure we can trust what they're saying.

I hope my explanation helps clear up your confusion. But, your report has made me more than a little apprehensive about suggesting keeping Ephebopus as swamp dwellers. Clearly, more data and experience is needed.

Thanks for your query.

[Pekka Hiekkapelto]

Kyle what do you mean with "arid" ? That means a lot of ventilation?

[K Smith]

Thanks so much for the quick reply Stan

Yes, I totally understand what your saying. More experience and more reports need to be made before any assumptions can be made on E.murinus' captive husbandry and tolerances of captive environment conditions... I don't have any experience with keeping T blondi yet, I've chickened out so far because of the expense of buying one, the reports of high maintainence (humidity, mites, fungus, phorids etc etc etc) and im waiting for the opportunity to buy a captive bred T.blondi, as I think I would have more chance of success, i.e acclimatizing it to less than swampy conditions, therefore less maintainence. Most likely you're right and the relative success I've had with E.murinus comes from her being able to make a secure deep burrow creating a more stable environment down there.

Indeed you have cleared the confusion thank you! The previous link has explained A LOT with regards to humidity 'myths'. (There was a time when I first started keeping tarantulas that every single enclosure had a thermostat and hygrometer in! Haha!) What was I thinking!?

It's good to know that other people have had the same experience or thoughts as I have... (Quote: 'But then a few enlightened enthusiasts (among them Robert (Spider Bob) Breene of the ATS) figured out that humidity is not the key to keeping them. It's the ability to burrow that matters. And, this is further reinforced by the photos published here. (Scroll down the page, looking at the captions to the various photos.)'

Thanks again for the reply, and thanks for the informed info that you give to us all in the hobby!
Cheers
Kyle

[K Smith]

Hi there,

By 'arid' I mean as Stan says, dry substrate and a water dish with just a screen top for the enclosure.

I had the same problems that you are having when I first started keeping tarantulas. Mold, mites, fungus, fungus gnats and phorids. Then I read the information on this forum and in hobby books and then changed to the dry set up with a water dish. A lot less hassle all round!

[Peter Roach]

Now what confuses me is that i've kept my Ephebopus murinus which was wild caught as a sub adult female for 3 years now, and always have from buying her, kept her on effectively dry substrate with just a water dish just like all my others. I trickle water once every two weeks down one side of the tank to filter through the substrate to give her a drink which she does use.

This just proves that spiders dont read the books and they dont do what they are supposed to

[Pekka Hiekkapelto]

"with just a screen top for the enclosure"

What does this mean?

[K Smith]

This just proves that spiders dont read the books and they dont do what they are supposed to

Aint that the truth!!

[Peter Roach]

"with just a screen top for the enclosure"

What does this mean?

The top of the enclosure is made entirely or mostly metal mesh

[Stanley A. Schultz]

The top of the enclosure is made entirely or mostly metal mesh

Are we still talking about Ephebopus here? I've lost track! If so...

Which infers, I assume, that the humidity in the cage is very similar to room humidity. And, that's way too dry according to the "party line." Which means we have to drop back to the other end of the pitch and reconsider the whole game plan.

It looks like TKG4 is going to be even bigger than TKG3. I wonder what my editor is going to say. I hope he isn't on heart medication! I hate it when they code on me halfway through the project!