Flogged to death!!!!!

[david clarke]

Why, as a society, is handing shunned? ( because no one would do that ! ) Even, when the persons we consider experts, offer advice on how to. Should the Society, embrace this, now common practice, move to the present, and adopt the " education is better than prevention " tactic?

[Lisa Bork]

I was going to reply on Facebook, but saw you were starting a thread. I find some pretty potent OW species at local pet stores myself. (The kind in the mall with puppies, kitties, and kids all over.) They don't know a thing about what they have. They told me a pulchripes was vicious yet had an H. gigas next to it with some ridiculous common name. I don't think a lot of parents/kids would know their heads from their bottoms if they went in here - because the owners/workers don't. I can see why if the 1st resource one of these families hits is the BTS in a Google search... ooh... yeah... the no handling thing would be good.

(I'm not sure what to do about the store. I go in and buy/clear out the more defensive/medically significant species out of there. I have had to stop teenagers working there from transferring them with nets. Someone is gonna get messed up. The kid working or the tarantula... most likely the latter. I know I'm encouraging them to get more when I clear them out... catch 22.)

Sure, education is ideal. It's just not commonly practiced. The site is easy to hit in a search. Rightly so. If handling pics were accepted, maybe confine it to a members only area? It really isn't a good practice anyway...
Sure, when my "vicious" pulchripes comes lumbering onto me when I'm doing cage maintenance, I let her.

[Lisa Bork]

P.S. What I've yankd out of there thus far: H. gigas, H. vonworthi (or sp Vietnam - no 100% ID yet... I should post her), P. crassipes. These... my local exotics stores don't carry (would usually have to search online) yet I find them in a store next to kittens in a public shopping mall. Not to mention the H. lividiums are the 2nd most common to G. rosea. I just won't spend $90 on one. By now at least the U.S. public is aware that "the blue ones are meaner than the rosies". That's the education extent here.

[Ray Hale]

Im glad you bought this up as it actually raises a couple of points that we as a society have been considering for some time. The first is of course a Handling Policy. Martin Nicholas has been tasked with revisting the BTS policy on handling as it seems that over the years it has become misinterprated by many keepers. This will be printed in the next issue of the journal as an article. The BTS has always preached education rather than prevention and it is this misconception that causes problems. We are not and have never been against handling of tarantulas we merely try to make the would be handler aware of the issues that may occur when handling a particular species. We do not condemn nor do we condone we merely put the facts before you and you can decide. I have said for many years now that one day someone will get bitten, it will make the tabloids and hell will break loose simply because of poor uneducated journalism. Recent reports in the press about False Widow bites show this all to clearly sending a panic amonst non believers.The second and more important point that I have been banging on about since the BTS Facebook site was set up is pictures of handling on the Facebook page. Whether you choose to handle or not and that is of course your personal choice the question is should we allow them to appear on our Facebook page. From my own view and speaking has a keeper and NOT a BTS Committee member here. I beleive not. Why? Fisrt of all not all Facebook members are actually members of the BTS ( A scenario I intend to address in the New Year!!!!!!) although they often cite us when trying to settle disputes. Secondly we do not control, police or edit the content of the Facebook site but as our Logo appears at the head of the page people think we do. We have certain rules and we ask people to respect them. I dont think that is too much to ask.

Support the BTS by joining us or dont join us as is your choice but dont criticise from without as we can only change from within. ( PS Dave I know you are a member and my rant is not aimed at your good self or at Lisa and I thank you both for broaching this hot topic ).
The BTS Facebook site will change soon.....its my New Years Resolution.

Cheers

Ray

[david clarke]

Hi Lisa / Ray

Thanks to the replies, to a subject which, I'm sure, is a bain in most peoples tarantula related lives.... Ray, good to hear the society is revisting the policy. I'm not sure if it is misinterpretation, or a combination of this and misguidance? It seems to be a pretty taboo subject, when mentioned, and not much information offered. An all round " safe " stance.

" I have said for many years now that one day someone will get bitten, it will make the tabloids and hell will break loose simply because of poor uneducated journalism. " ( sorry I don't know how to add the quotes.. )

Experienced handlers do get bit. You only have to look at the bite reports. I agree that the tabloids will completely blow it out of proportion, as they did in the false widow reports you mentioned. But still, would it be possible to have a more open and informative policy?

" Whether you choose to handle or not and that is of course your personal choice the question is should we allow them to appear on our Facebook page. From my own view and speaking has a keeper and NOT a BTS Committee member here. I beleive not. "

I am agreeing with you on this now... As the FaceBook page sits, you have no control over who views and reads posts. I totally understand the implications of said photos being viewed by anyone.

I just want to refer to, a couple of, Lisa's quotes now..

" I find some pretty potent OW species at local pet stores myself. (The kind in the mall with puppies, kitties, and kids all over.) They don't know a thing about what they have. They told me a pulchripes was vicious yet had an H. gigas next to it with some ridiculous common name. I don't think a lot of parents/kids would know their heads from their bottoms if they went in here - because the owners/workers don't "

And

" I can see why if the 1st resource one of these families hits is the BTS in a Google search.. "

To refer to the " Education is better than prevention " statement we both mentioned. As Lisa said, some Pet Stores have no idea what they are selling, how to safely handle, both for the protection of spider and themselves, or, have any idea on the appropriate care required by these creatures. I spent 6 months researching and visiting various Pet stores, before I bought my first spider.... Every Pet store I visited I asked them about the BTS... For reasons unknown, every pet store advised me to stay away from the BTS and get my answers / information from Youtube... We all know what we can come across on Youtube. So, if ya want it, the information is there, right or wrong, from an unreliable source. I chose the BTS, in my opinion, that's the sensible place to find information, from experienced people. Is eduacation targeted at the right group, ie. mostly members? Is it possible to target, in the first instance, large Pet Stores, who could be affiliated to the BTS? Provide a percentage discount on 1st year memberships? I understand that the society thrives on the great work of dedicated volunteers, but, thought I would ask the questions.

Thanks
David

PS. How do ya get the quote bubbles, to refer to? Lol

[Ray Hale]

Cheers Dave,

Good points and we will be looking into the whole thing about handling. Why do pet shops not recomend us? Well the same reason that some shops that sell reptiles dont recomend clubs like the IHS or the BHS. Good advice is bad for profit.Also once you become a member of any club you can usually find your animlas through other members....again bad for profit. Dont get me wrong I run my own buisness (non spider related) so I know how hard it is these days to make a living and its important to make a profit. I emphasise that there are a lot of great shops out there who are very competent and well versed in both spider and reptile keeping.. We do ask shops to give information about keeping but are often told "we know that we are doing so mind your own buisness". I remember asking a shop owner why the tarantula in the tank was covered with white fur only to be told "its moulting and we were told to leave it alone". My guess was it had been dead for about a month!!!!!
The problem in getting pet shops affiliated is that once again we have no control or input after the initial input. If the assitants leave or the shop changes hands we are back to square one I'm afraid. Your ideas are sound and we will ceratinly take them on board and look into the possibility of taking some of them up.

Cheers

Ray

[Peter Roach]

PS. How do ya get the quote bubbles, to refer to? Lol

Easy, just put the words you want quoted between these 2 thingys . . . . (quote) (/quote) . . . .change the rounded brackets .. ( ) and use the square brackets instead [ ]

[david clarke]

Hi Ray

Again, thanks for the reply. I don't wish to keep the thread going, for no reason. As the title says, it's a subject that has been " flogged to death". I just wanted to take the time to explain what I was thinking. Maybe you have already tried this.

Exotic animals, and in particular to us, tarantulas, seem to be " creeping " more and more into the national chains of pet stores, and garden centres. We all know who they are, and these are the source, of a lot of the bad practices we hear about. To these national companies, the animals are not a main generation of profit, but rather the attraction. The main profit is gained from supplying the equipment to keep and care for said animal. Also, the chances are, they are only ever going to provide someones first spider, as they can always be found much cheaper. These companies, at managment level, work on paperwork based policies and statistics. For this reason, is it possible to target the company, rather than the local store?

Every company, of this size, should have some sort of designated training officer / manager.

Is it possible to design a very, very short and very, very basic training session to offer these companies? Designed in a way that the short session can be given by a trained member of staff?

To Include

Brief introduction to Tarantulas and the BTS
Suitability of species ie OW / NW / Burrower / Terrestrial / Arboreral /
Housing
Maintenance
Necessary handling ( Transfer and rehousing. Docile / aggressive )


This should be confined to 1-1 1/2 hrs, with a limited no. of students ( 4-6 ) and would be approved by the BTS. This would mean putting the society name to commercial training information. I would'nt be sure of the legalities of that.

What this could achieve for the company.

Allow them to make related policy and risk assessments a little more robust. ( possibly impacting on insurance )
Enhance the level of care, and safety, to their live stock spiders.
Enhance the safety of their staff, allowing the company to fullfil their duty of care.
Enable them to provide sound advice, from choosing a spider, to care and maintenance. ( this can only increase reputation )
* Allow them to provide instructions on discounted first year membership of the BTS.

What can this achieve for the society?

Increase available information and awareness of Tarantulas.
Widely distributed information on correct care for Tarantulas. ( increasing the safety of spider and handler / owner )
Raise awarness of species selection.
Widely distributed advertisement for the BTS.
Possible increased membership and the benefits that go with it.

Again, I understand that as volunteers, it may be difficult to find time for this sort of project, or, you may have already tried this, and been told where to go. It's just a thought, on problems I've heard of regularly.

Cheers

David

PS.

Easy, just put the words you want quoted between these 2 thingys . . . . . . . .change the rounded brackets .. ( ) and use the square brackets instead [ ]

Cheers Peter, much appreciated..

[david clarke]

Why did the quote thing not work? I'm sure I'm being stupid. Computers are far from my strong point...

[Kate Arbon]

Quote like this david

(quote)This is the text you are trying to quote!(/quote)

Only change the ('s for ['s

[david clarke]

Thanks Kate

Ah ha... Much appreciated. I'm an idiot....

David