Ebay

[Simon Batten]

the only thing I can see wrong with it is anyone can just buy them without really knowing anything where as if your buying them from a breeders site you shouild already know something and if from a petshop then they will make sure you have the right setup heating food ect I did buy a curly haired spiderling from him and am awaiting arrival but I already have another set up here that I can use with a spare heat mat and I have read alot and I have you guys to help me

[Chris Sainsbury]

I see your point Simon but same can be said about buying from online dealers.
For example I could be in the position where I know almost next to nothing about tarantulas (not far from the truth), go on to the BTS Bulletin Board, click on an email of someone selling a spider, and a few days later get the spider in the post.
I have yet to experince someone who is selling spiders online or even at shows inquire if I know what I am doing in the care for the animal.

Sorry I tell a lie! I do remember Carl & Sue Portman doing this with someone at Hamm once as they were a little unsure of the buyer, mind you this was a face to face conversation so it doesn't really count on the subject of online sellers/buyers.

Not all Pet shops are clear themselfs in tarantula husbandary. Some are it is true, but these I find are quite few and far between. In fact some of the things I have been told about tarantulas by people in pets shops have been dam right stupid. A product going by the name of `The Tarantula Sponge´ is a small example of what I mean.
Also in Pet Shops tarantulas do tend to be a little over expensive, but due to their shop overheads you can I think forgive them for this.

Ebay really, to me is just an auction and if you end up paying more, it is because you want it more end of story. These auctions also happen on the bulletin boards, you know the `make me an offer´ adds? The difference is that you don't get to see the other biders offers so who is to say the seller won't spin you a yarn about their last offer, just so they can get a higher price?
An advantage with Ebay is that you do in most cases see what you are buying in the form of a pic and by checking the sellers history and reviews, you can also get a fair idea if your going to get stung by the seller or not. Some other web sites offer these reviews also but not all.

With Ebay you also have the advantage that if you do not recieve what was stated in the addvertizement then there is a way to complain and have action taken, all be this may take some time but I think this process is alot easyier than if you were stung by some Tom, Dick and Harry who placed an add on one of the many bulletin boards that can be found online. It's lucky that there are few cads in this hobby.

If buying from an online seller/dealer then I would expect the orderd spider would arrive by post much the same as if I had won an Ebay auction, so no difference there also from what I can see.

So all in all the only difference with Ebay is it is againts Ebay rules to do so which is fair enough.

What I don't get is why some people who also sell their spiders online are so set dead againts someone selling their spiders online via Ebay, and feel that they have to send out the all important email informing Ebay to the mister meaners of someone just trying to sell a spider!
What on earth can these people get out of such a thing when they themselfs do the same (just not on Ebay).

Strange I think to say the least.

[Layla McInnes]

I do ask people if they know what they are doing and offer caresheets where needed as I do care where my spiders go. Im sure people on this thread have asked me q's and I have asked them regarding care of spiders I sell online. I have been complimented on the fact that I care!

The problem I have with it is yes its agains ebay rules BUT I wouldnt want a child getting hold of a spider, no matter what size, getting bit and it looking bad on the hobby nor would I like some idiot to by a spider as a prank to throw it at their mates!
The majority of the spiders I sell are to people I know now on forums. Hence why I no longer advertise on classifieds. No I havent met ALL personally but know they are not a 10 year old on mums paypal account. I didnt report all the items. But have now recieved a not very nice PM from the seller after reading this thread. I dont think Im wrong for doing something I believe in and wont cover up I did it hence why I posted the fact here. Im not the only one to have reported Ts on on ebay but its not my place to say who else has!
Im sure my explanation will be pulled apart, quoted and argued against and no doubt I will get called a hypocrite by people for also selling Ts online but alas if I cared what people online thought then I probably wouldnt post on a forum!

[Daniel Carpenter]

good for you Layla!!! Well said.
Dan.

[Simon Batten]

personally if id known I was going to cause a arguement I wouldnt of started the thread I only did it to get opinions on what people thought before I purchased a kit

[Layla McInnes]

I dont think there is an argument. Just a difference of opinions.

[Dave Gunter]

Personally i see nothing wrong in the sale of livestock on ebay, after all what is the difference between there and any other online seller (including sales on this site), even as you say Layla, you ask questions, but with such an impersonal service as the net you could still be selling to an 8 year old who knows nothing about spiders or whatever but who is a whizz with google and gives you the exact answers to any question you might ask, at least on ebay there is a degree of age checking that is difficult to circumvent.

The real problem is with ebays stupid livestock rules, either they should allow anything (subject of course to suitable transfer arrangements) or nothing at all.

For example, i cannot offer a 1cm sling, phasmid ova or any other bug that can safely (for the critter) be sent in the post, but i can auction a 100cm koi carp which would be darned near impossible to send.

[James Metcalf]

lol yhe thas true

[Simon Batten]

I agree with you Dave

[Mark Pennell]

This is turning out a very interesting debate; I personally contacted the owner of the original link on eBay to point out a small error on his growth rate.

He turned out be a very amicable chap and in fact an entomology professor at Manchester University. He had excellent reasons for selling the kits I will not go into this here as I will leave him to explain this as he is a regular visitor to this forum and has now joined the forum perhaps to even join this fine debate.

Regards
Mark
Forum Admin
P.S EBay has its rules and its up to them to set them, having falling foul of their rules and had my account frozen for a while, while I had to convince what seem to be automated replies to my questions and weeks later finally get re instated and an apology. As in fact I never broke their rules, but some person who lost the bid decided to report me.

Ahh the digital world! Just as manic! And as depressing as the real world.

[Simon Batten]

yes he was very nice to me offered no postage on my second purchase hopefully they should arrive soon after the weekend im looking forward to seeing them

[Chris Sainsbury]

I do ask people if they know what they are doing and offer caresheets where needed as I do care where my spiders go. Im sure people on this thread have asked me q's and I have asked them regarding care of spiders I sell online. I have been complimented on the fact that I care!

This is very admirable of you and it seems you are one of the few who do this, if this indeed is true. But just because you do this it does not mean everybody does or indeed have to do this and I can very well understand many reasons why most people don’t. That’s one hell of a lot of care sheets to print out for a successful Brachypelma eggsac if they are sold seperatly!

The problem I have with it is yes its agains ebay rules

And you’re just looking out for the business right? Why? Do you have shares in it? Are you a part owner?
As rules go I think this is a pretty small one to break and can think of others that have been broken which could be deemed much more serious.

BUT I wouldnt want a child getting hold of a spider, no matter what size, getting bit and it looking bad on the hobby nor would I like some idiot to by a spider as a prank to throw it at their mates!

This is an interesting view point in regards to how many people start off in a hobby such as this! I know a lot of people who started the keeping of spiders at quite an early age a couple of them as young as five so I am lead to believe. So what makes these kids different?
Does the parent’s responsibility and permission not count for anything these days?

The same Idiot could just go to his local pet shop that sells spiders to play that prank, as was the case not so long ago if I recall correctly.

The majority of the spiders I sell are to people I know now on forums

Interesting, but for other reasons.

Hence why I no longer advertise on classifieds

Quite a recent decision on your part I see what with one of your last advertisement on a classified was on the 8th September 2006!

No I havent met ALL personally but know they are not a 10 year old on mums paypal account.

Again the very possible responsible 10 year with his or her mums permission to use her paypal account is going to be very disappointed.

I didnt report all the items. But have now recieved a not very nice PM from the seller after reading this thread.

I can understand the persons frustration if you stopped the person trying to make an honest sale just on the grounds that the rules of Ebay must be adjured to at what ever cost.

I dont think Im wrong for doing something I believe in and wont cover up I did it hence why I posted the fact here. Im not the only one to have reported Ts on on ebay but its not my place to say who else has!

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you are in the wrong also, but I also don’t think you are in the right .I’m just trying to understand the reasoning behind such actions and why it is such a wrong thing to sell tarantulas over Ebay.
I’m sure you are not the only one to do this but you are the only one so far on here to say that you have, so in effect I can only ask you for the answers I seek.

Im sure my explanation will be pulled apart, quoted and argued against and no doubt I will get called a hypocrite by people for also selling Ts online but alas if I cared what people online thought then I probably wouldnt post on a forum!

And what is wrong with this? I only `pull it apart and quote it´, so you put it, so that you can see what I am replying to. There is no other reason except that it makes my reply easier to read and understand for me, yourself and any other person wishing to read this thread.

Also like you said in your other post this is no argument, just difference of opinions.

Personally i see nothing wrong in the sale of livestock on ebay, after all what is the difference between there and any other online seller (including sales on this site), even as you say Layla, you ask questions, but with such an impersonal service as the net you could still be selling to an 8 year old who knows nothing about spiders or whatever but who is a whizz with google and gives you the exact answers to any question you might ask, at least on ebay there is a degree of age checking that is difficult to circumvent.

Hi Dave

Better put than I did I think. My way with words is not the best at the best of times.

The real problem is with ebays stupid livestock rules, either they should allow anything (subject of course to suitable transfer arrangements) or nothing at all.

For example, i cannot offer a 1cm sling, phasmid ova or any other bug that can safely (for the critter) be sent in the post, but i can auction a 100cm koi carp which would be darned near impossible to send.

Again this is what I am talking about. It’s just madness and I can’t for the life of me see what other tarantula hobbyists have against the people who try to get away with such a small break of the rules.

This is turning out a very interesting debate; I personally contacted the owner of the original link on eBay to point out a small error on his growth rate.

He turned out be a very amicable chap and in fact a entomology professor at Manchester University. He had excellent reasons for selling the kits I will not go into this here as I will leave him to explain this as he is a regular visitor to this forum and has now joined the forum perhaps to even join this fine debate.

Hi Mark

Great stuff It goes to show that the sellers who try to sell spiders on Ebay are not the demons from hell just looking to rip someone off.

P.S EBay has its rules and its up to them to set them, having falling foul of there rules and had my account frozen for a while, while I had to convince what seem to be automated replies to my questions and weeks later finally get re instated and an apology. As in fact I never broke there rules, but some person who lost the bid decided to report me.

Complaining over nothing tends to cause this effect. I have sent Ebay an email to question this rule concerning the selling of tarantulas, so if they reply I will be sure to post it up (with Ebays permission of course).

Ahh the digital world! Just as manic! And as depressing as the real world

You can say that again.

[Adam Smith]

As mark p said this has turned into an interesting debate. For my personal opinion i like 2 purchase online and many of my ts are frm bts over the last year. I will hopefully b on the other side and have bred myself.

[Layla McInnes]

This is very admirable of you and it seems you are one of the few who do this, if this indeed is true.

No need for me to lie about it. As I recall I asked Dave recently if he needed help in regards to care of some slings he was purchasing as I wasnt sure if he had any Ts. I email the sheets though, not print them out and normally sell my slings in multiples so Im not sending out 300+ caresheets. The only ones I print out are for the pet shop I work at if a couple of spiders go there. Unfortunatley there arent that many interested in spiders up here

I have no problem with parental permission given if the child is under 16.

The classifieds thing I didnt explain properly. I mean I now just post on T forums (ie BTS and Giantspiders and so on)for sale boards rather than livefoods classifieds, cview etc


Obviously I dont know if an 8 year old has bought from me and lied. I like to pride myself on my judgement hence why I ask people if I dont know them or suspect otherwise. At least I can refuse a sale if someone emails me rather than having to send it to whoever pays the most regardless of who they are.

Its great that one of the sellers knows what he was talking about and the info given was just a typo. But the one I talked to did say he was trying to make profit and he wouldnt be able to sell the kits on the forums. I personally think the kits are unsuitable for 1cm spiderling. I have seen some of mine try and escape out of small holes in a pot nevermind a vent in the pet pals. For a Juv IMO they are great.

This has been an interesting thread indeed.

[Chris Sainsbury]

No need for me to lie about it. As I recall I asked Dave recently if he needed help in regards to care of some slings he was purchasing as I wasnt sure if he had any Ts. I email the sheets though, not print them out and normally sell my slings in multiples so Im not sending out 300+ caresheets. The only ones I print out are for the pet shop I work at if a couple of spiders go there. Unfortunatley there arent that many interested in spiders up here

A nice idea and a shame about the lack of interest in your area.

I have no problem with parental permission given if the child is under 16.

To be honest I didn’t think you would have but from your earlier post it did seem that this scenario was not thought of.


I am sorry to say but this is where your post gets very confusing for me and I would very much appreciate if you explain a little clearer (I think this could be stupidity on my part).

The classifieds thing I didnt explain properly. I mean I now just post on T forums (ie BTS and Giantspiders and so on)for sale boards rather than livefoods classifieds, cview etc

Is there a difference between the two? I must admit that the only difference I can see is that one is for all sorts of herps, including reptiles, amphibians, inverts etc. and the others are more or less just spider orientated. Either way they can all be accessed by the same people so how does this stop sales of spiders to (for want of a better word) `inappropriate´ people?

Obviously I dont know if an 8 year old has bought from me and lied. I like to pride myself on my judgement hence why I ask people if I dont know them or suspect otherwise

This is a bit of a turn around, as before you said….

No I havent met ALL personally but know they are not a 10 year old on mums paypal account.

and you sounded so definite in this. Now you say that is possible someone could have lied which is no different from Ebay in the end is it?

At least I can refuse a sale if someone emails me rather than having to send it to whoever pays the most regardless of who they are.

But is it not also true that the seller can pull the item they are selling if they are not happy, at least until the time has run out? This might not be deemed as good practice on Ebay but it is possible or?

Its great that one of the sellers knows what he was talking about and the info given was just a typo.

So what are you saying now?
Is it ok that he was selling on Ebay because he knew what he was talking about? If this is indeed the case then by your actions of reporting the sale, all you have achieved is spoil someone’s day and possibly their Ebay account! A friendly email may have been the nicer approach?

But the one I talked to did say he was trying to make profit and he wouldnt be able to sell the kits on the forums.

But what does it matter that the seller was trying to make a profit? This is what Ebay is all about and infact when it comes down to it the selling of spiders in general. This by no means, means that the seller was trying to con people, they can only do that if they don’t supply what is advertised in the add. It’s not as if they force people to bid, and if people are happy to bid and pay the price they bided then alls just fine and dandy as far as I can see.

I personally think the kits are unsuitable for 1cm spiderling. I have seen some of mine try and escape out of small holes in a pot nevermind a vent in the pet pals. For a Juv IMO they are great.

Just because you don’t find the kits suitable you can’t expect the whole of the world to agree. Besides the pet pal is still going to be of use later on when the spider grows or? So until then keep it in the pot that it comes in. There is nothing wrong with thinking ahead in regards to it’s housing in my opinion.


It looks as if this topic is going a little off track all be it an interesting track. I would still like to know what some spider sellers have against people who try and sell their spiders on Ebay and why they feel that it is their duty to report them?

I have ruled out the wrong person getting hold of the spider reason as this can happen on both Ebay and the more normal online sales.
The person behind the sale can’t be the reason as it has now been shown that they aren’t all cads! Again the same as the more normal online sales.

All I can figure is that it has something to do with the Ebay golden rule breaking, but why this minor of Mr Meaners should get up anyone’s shirt I really don’t know? Please , Please say the reason or reason’s why or I don’t think sleep will ever come to me again!
There was a thread about this very same topic on another forum a while back, and when I posed the same question I never got a strate answer either so I don’t hold my hopes up.

After all if you can buy fish and live food on Ebay so what then makes spiders so special? I’m still awaiting a reply from Ebay on this also.

All the best
Chris