Ebay

[Larry Shone]

[J M Clegg]

Ebay

I have read with great interest the many different opinions expressed in this forum, for a matter of point I am the ebay seller in question Jedijay153. I am surprised to see the debate that selling a spider on ebay has caused. Layla I have no ill feeling to you reporting my adverts to ebay and having them removed. A rule is broken and you felt it in your right to report it. However there is a bit of an irony here. If you have read my positive feedback left by people buying the kits you will see many delighted customers who have purchased Brachypelma Emila kits. These spiderlings I purchased direct from you just a few months ago and indirectly you have contributed the highest number of spiders to my sold ebay collection than any other breeder. It’s strange how things happen.

Having read the differing opinions I would now like to add another flavour to the nicely simmering pot. The act of selling a spider is not something exclusive to anyone. The right to sell a Tarantula is not exclusive to anyone or any organisation. I have enjoyed several conversations with Mark Pennell after he contacted me regarding a typographic error on the adverts regarding growth rates. He is an ambassador for the BTS and its valued committee. He understands that the right to own a Tarantula is not exclusive. At times I personally feel that a minority of breeders of Tarantulas some how feel that they are an elite and that they alone should hold this privilege. Selling a spider whether in a forum, on ebay, in a pet shop or at a show, is the right of anyone who wishes to perform such a transaction. I have sold over 100 beginner kits over the last 4 to 5 months. With each kit I have provided very detailed instructions on how to look after and raise a spiderling. I have provided spiderlings that are in good condition and a good choice for beginners and that require little specialist care. Everyone who makes a purchase, if we are to follow ebay rules has to be over 18 and therefore deemed an adult who we must trust as being responsible. I think this would meet the approval of anyone who called themselves a responsible Arachnophile.

Now please consider this further thought. How many of the people who I have sold a starter kit have gone on to research or join the BTS? How many of them have gone on to purchase other spiders from sellers like Lee at the Spidershop or from forums. How many of them have taken their first steps into this wonderful hobby and interest? I get emails every week from lots of people who tell me that they are delighted and love their new baby Tarantulas. I know for a fact that many of them now regularly enjoy the BTS forum. What I have actually done is brought the world of the Tarantula to anyone who wishes to experience it and not to just a few, some of whom see themselves as an elite. I understand that the BTS currently holds membership of around 550 members, well if everyone who bought my kits also joined – in effect I would be responsible for 20% growth of the membership directly. I should be given an honoury membership on that fact alone!

And now my closing lines, sadly and due directly to the reporting of my ebay adverts by a BTS member - I have decided to stop selling spiders. I still have around 30 left that I have to clear and I will continue to use ebay to sell them. It is after all my right to sell them as and where I see fit. The unfortunate thing is that in order to meet ebays rules and not have my account totally withdrawn – I have no choice but to sell them as a food item. This causes me great conflict as the promotion of Arachnophila has been foremost in my mind, and now sadly I have to resort to promoting them as a food source which is in effect reversing their promotion. I realise this is going to cause more conversations within forums and I may become public enemy number 1. However please try to remember that the catalyst for this action came from within this wonderful society’s highly knowledgeable membership.

I will continue to watch and enjoy these wonderful forums.

Jedijay153.

[Simon Batten]

its a shame that it has had to come to you not selling them anymore im sorry for my part in this but have you considered advertising them on the classifieds on here or on invertabid.co.uk

[J M Clegg]

Simon, no apology is necessary. You are doing the right thing and asking lots of questions. Your forum questions are relevant and you are keen to learn. I appreciate that more than anything and predict you will become highly knowledgeable in the world of the Arachnid.

It’s interesting that the majority of people actually support what I have been doing and that is excellent. I can’t help but think that sour grapes, rather than rule breaking has really being a catalyst for me having to stop.

In answering your question: Forums are great for breeders as they can shift stock and make maybe 2 or 3 pounds on a spider. For us and what we have been doing it’s not financially viable. The money generated on the sale of each spider has been used for funding private research. The amounts we are talking about are quite low when you consider the efforts involved. As an example – and using Layla’s Red Legs as a relevant case study. You buy the spider for £3, you add a new tub, vermiculite, Spagnum Moss and this increases the cost to £4. You sell at 12.99 per kit (in the case of Red Legs) Curley Hairs and Chillean Roses at £8.99. Then deduct ebay costs of £1.20 and paypal costs of another 80p and you roughly make £6.99 on a Red Leg and £2.99 on a lesser kit like a Curley Hair. So the margins are quite low – although using Laylas red legs and via ebay I think we made in the region of £140 profit on a quite low investment. The problem is time. It takes time to prepare the kits, write the care sheets, package them up, post them and answer emails etc. As a little hobby it can make a few quid I suppose and could be appealing to some people, but for me it’s really no longer worth the effort.

As I have previously noted though, if it has brought more people to the world of keeping spiders it has been worth it, and it has certainly added an interesting topic to the forum. And if it has upset a couple of people then Ah well, I can live with it!!!

[Chris Sainsbury]

I feel it is quite a shame that you have now been somewhat forced to stop selling your tarantulas starter kits on Ebay, especially in view of the amount of people that you may of got interested in this hobby by doing this. I must admit this is not something I had considered as a consequence of the sales you had made.
With Ebay selling almost everything, it does open the hobby up to many more people when they are browsing the online store and they just happen to come across a spider for sale. From that day on the majority of these people I would think are hooked. And who knows the next generation of Andrew Smith’s, Volker von Wirth’s and Boris Striffler’s etc. are started to be born just from the single spider they brought on Ebay that got them interested.

I can very well understand your other reasons for stopping also, what with all the hard work put in with little getting out of it, but even so I would imagine that little extra money could have gone a long way for your private research, so without it I hope you can continue it as good as before. From what I hear almost all research is under funded so even a small loss is somewhat a pain in the backside at the best of times.

It is interesting your use of the `sour grapes´ expression as this is also the conclusion I myself came too on this and another thread that was also of a similar nature a long while back.

Like they say , you can’t please everyone!

All the best and good luck with the research you are doing.

Chris

[Simon Batten]

im relieved that theres no hard feeling and wish you all the best in your research, im also hooked after a short time I didnt know it would become such a facinating hobby

[J M Clegg]

Chris - thanks for your support - your a true gent.

Simon - Your Praying Mantis and Curley Haired kits will be with you by breakfast.

[Nigel M]

To Whom it may Concern { Actually it doesnt concern any of you }
As A New Arrival on the forum , I am here to stand up for what I am doing .
I am also a seller of tarantula slings that I have bought from others and offer for sale on ebay .
I have nothing to hide and yes I aim to sell for profit .
I have read this post throughout and it seems to me that it is only a minority that dissagree with what I and Mr Clegg have been doing , after all I wouldnt be her if it wasnt for the first kit which I bought from him .

I saw it as a way of making some profit enabling me to expand my collection, however as pointed out before there is not a great deal of profit in it when you take into account the amount of time and effort involved as well as the cost of feeding { albeit a small cost} if you take everything into account It aint gonna make me rich.
I have been selling with RMSD which although guaranteed next day ,costs a great deal When selling as a buy now it makes the whole kit quite expensive ,so I have taken to First class recorded delivery and in almost all cases this is also arriving next day.
I care for all the spiderlings etc that I buy and sell to the very best standards ,just as the seller of them would or pottential buyer.
The spiderlings are packed as good as I have received them from any seller , And sometimes I go overboard on the packaging Just to make sure they are safe.
I offer a basic care sheet including any special needs that ther may be for aparticular species, I usually reciev at least 2 emails before a buyer commits to buy and usually sevral after saying that the package arrived safely spider doing well ,sometimes pictures of the spider in thier house etc which all goes to show that customers are happy with what they have paid for.
I have had a problem with the new kits which I am now using as the 4 pre drilled ventilation holes are too big and easily allow small spiderlings to escape , This is being rectified by also supplying a cricket tub as a temporary {2-3 molts} Solution..
The original kits Were Succesful if used with the net covering that was supplied and no escape was possible , I do not consider these To be too large for a spiderling , I have 20 or so on my shelf with my own spiderlings in and they all seem to be very content with the setup's , they are quite small although they look bigger , they are 6 x 3 x 4 inch {Length x width x height} and although that is relativly big for a sling a pottential new keeper wouldnt want to have it in a small pot or film canister ..


I no longer offer these kit's though as they proved too expensive with the small profit margin , so I bought some other housing from a reputable invert store { I dont wish to mention names as it is not relevant to this thread},These have caused me a great problem as mentioned earlier they are designed to house inverts of all manner but are useless to house slings..I have had 2 buyers who have lost thier slings .{hence supplying Cricket tubs with all kits now!}
I always offer a replacement for a D.O.A and have contacted the person who mentioned this { top post of this page} If he had contacted me first he would already have a replacement .This is however the very first D.O.A that I am aware of to date .
If any one has a problem with me selling Via ebay or supplying please contact me first before reporting { with the exception of the person who I have had communication Via Bugnation---- see no names !!}
Nigel { aka theeightleggedfreak

[David Paylor]

Hi all, total noob here. I've been meaning to join this forum for a while, having been directed here by Jedijay (J M Clegg) as being a great place for a starter to pick the brains of a lot of very knowledgeable folk. I have more to learn than I have to contribute at the moment, but I hope to pay you back eventually.
I have three spiderlings now (a giant white knee, a red leg and a curly haired), all from Mr Clegg, and am enraptured by them, their every move. A fresh moult is a major event that allows the kids to stay up late, feeding is something that is eagerly awaited.
I bought my first via eBay, the white knee, and it arrived perfectly packed and with a care sheet that was complete enough to prevent any problems, but free from technical terms (sling?) and easy to follow. The spider was perky and active from the start, and s/he is still a little bugger 10 weeks later.
When I realised that I liked spiders, I ordered a couple more, and they were similarly happy and healthy, at which point Jedijay told me that that was probably enough, and I shouldn't get any more until the ones I had were mature, just to see how I got on.
Every email I have sent him has been answered within 24 hours, every query answered.

Sounds like an idiot, doesn't he?

I have a few issues with the way this "campaign" has progressed:
First, the issue of kids buying spiders: PayPal is password protected, but (if Mum's been hitting the gin) then a credit card isn't. If you have the card in your hand you can order anything, but if you don't know the password then PayPal is useless.
Second, if selling spiders via eBay is wrong, then selling any invert is wrong. Spiders aren't more "important" than snails or mantids (both of which I also keep), or live crickets. Why has it just been a couple of people that have been trashed, rather than complaints been directed to Ebay about a general principal. Ban live food sales as well, why not?
Finally, I know that eBay has rules banning the sale of pets and livestock (who wants to see puppies or seals being sent by post from Alaska to Hawaii?) but if it's OK to send these fine creatures by post off eBay, then what is wrong with them being sent on eBy.

I appreciate that this isn't the best way of ingratiating myself with a new group of friends, but wrong-headed action is wrong-headed action. Take care all.

David.

[Simon Batten]

hi David welcome I am also new to the keeping of tarantulas and have found the people here an invaluble source of knowledge when I have had any queries, I agree with what you have said I personally dont see a problem as you have probably read its turned into quite a debate

[David Paylor]

I seem to recall that mine was marked "Fragile, with care" or some such, and it arrived very promptly. Like I said, all the slings I've bought have been very perky on arrival, and feeding within 24 hours.
I do a fair amount of business on eBay, both as a seller and a buyer, and it's usually the post service that messes up.
I don't recall that the "action" that's been taken by a member here being as a result of complaints? Did you read the mans Feedback? Impecable.
Can I ask the member who has reported J for his transgression if an email was sent to him before peeing on his doormat?

[David Paylor]

Oh, and thanks for the greetings.

Aren't they great, spiders?

[Trystan Potter]

I too have purchased a Curly Hair tarantula from J M Clegg (jedijay) and i think what has been done is unfair, maybe that is an understatement!

The impression I got the whole time whilst dealing with J through ebay and emails is the care of the spider comes first! The products you receive have been top notch! He has been tremendously helpful and i should suspect he answers the same questions day in day out from the likes of noobs like me! However, since i bought a tarantula from J, i have been completely fearless of all spiders, i have racked up enormous hours reading about arachnids and have been educating many others!!!

I will support him all the way and will argue the fact that he has not done anything wrong, he has been awesome to the arachnid community and awesome to the ebay community! If i was rich id donate money to him for research and justice! lol

I just wish other big companies like BT would have as good after-sale care as J has!!!

Thanks again J!

[Adam Smith]

Im sorry but I have to disagree on the part with regards to using a small pet pal and set up for a spiderling. A cricket tub works fine if there is a film pot or of such as retreat but anything bigger isnt neccessary at that stage.

[Simon Batten]

Oh, and thanks for the greetings.

Aren't they great, spiders?

I cant belive how hooked I have become