Dyskenetic syndrome

[Richard Shah]

i am not going to euthanise the tarantula!
there is every reason to hope for its recovery, and while there's hope i will not give up.
i didn't bring this thread back to discuss that issue at all (it has been debated ad nauseum already in this thread and others), but to get thoughts and maybe new info on this syndrome.

i have a living spider here who is ''suffering'', and i wish to help it recover and further knowledge to fight this problem wherever else it occurs.
my main concern now is that it is not going to be good breeding stock if it makes it to maturity, if it is a genetic issue.
i was attempting to forcefeed it a cricket tonight, and while it took a bite, it didn't seem interested in holding on.
it is truly distressing to see it in such obvious discomfort, and i hope that i can coax it through.
the most gutting thing is the very good chance he won't survive to breed or that even if he does it won't be advisable

Hi James
I didn't read all of your post but I will do soon. I missed the fact that this thread was ressurected, I thought it was started within the last week.

Anyway, read up a bit and I would definitely say to not try to kill your tarantula (even though you made it clear u wouldn't). This is why:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=83775

Read through it, and you''ll find that recoveries have been made (although the tarantulas MAY not have had the dyskinetic syndrome but similar symtoms.

Thanks

Rich.

[James Box]

thanks for posting that Richard, guess there's even more reason to be optimistic.

[Richard Shah]

thanks for posting that Richard, guess there's even more reason to be optimistic.

Certainly. No problem. Good luck with it mate.

[Matthew Baines]

Hope you do have some success anyway

[James Box]

after about an hour of disobeying general BTS policy and hand feeding it a wax worm, it looks like it's eaten and despite the problems moving it has fattened a bit more. hopefully a few more of those and it'll moult...but i seriously hope it's not one moult away from maturity!

[Lisa Baines]

Pardon my ignorance but i thought there was a loophole in the law (i was told not so long back)whereby if you had a reptile that refused to eat pre-killed (royal pythons being a good example) you could put in live (under supervision) so long as the prey had sufficient food and housing/cover to have a chance of 'escape and refuge'

[Colin D Wilson]

after about an hour of disobeying general BTS policy and hand feeding it a wax worm

You're sacked !!!!!!

[James Box]

Pardon my ignorance but i thought there was a loophole in the law (i was told not so long back)whereby if you had a reptile that refused to eat pre-killed (royal pythons being a good example) you could put in live (under supervision) so long as the prey had sufficient food and housing/cover to have a chance of 'escape and refuge'

i think in this case pre-killed or very very slow moving is the only way to do it. no way this T is going to catch and hold onto a cricket.
so mice are probably out...plus i'd have to buy live ones then

You're sacked !!!!!!

i'll clean out my desk in the morning

[Taki Tsonis]

Embaressingly I just realised I have forgotten to send you that info Colin!! James I haven't really been having time to get onto the forums as much lately, South Africa is heading the way of Zimbabwe and we all having to pre-plan our futures and economics here lol.
I must tell you that my male klugi did eventually pass on and unfortunately, even though I thought he had completely recovered from the DS, in his last week he got all the symptoms back. Not as bad as usual, but nevertheless they were still there.
Also I have lost a P metallica (I really wanted to quit the hobby after that one), and a couple of others as well. I'm now experimenting with feeding my T's roaches instead of crickets. I'm convinced my metallica got it's DS from a cricket, it was perfectly healthy the one day and following a cricket feeding it had DS and died a week later!!
So I really don't have much good news I'm afraid. The only thing I would suggest is trying the roaches instead of the crickets even with your ds T too see if that could possibly make any difference, and the raising of humidity a lot and temp a bit.
As a matter of interest, I'm trying to rule out gel as a possible cause, did your DS T get gel at any point?

[James Box]

thanks for replying Taki, with the stressful times currently in SA
sorry to hear things went wrong still for your klugi...as well as the metallica.
i've only had my T for a couple of weeks, and i had given him a bit of water and food, no gel. though since he started showing signs i put him in with some.
the crickets were an unlikely source as everyone gets them...they're bred for feeding so exposure to pesticides etc is hopfully unlikely.
well i'll keep this updated with progress, others have had some recoveries, so it could be i'll be lucky.
of course, he may only have one more moult before maturity, which won't be enough by all accounts

[Taki Tsonis]

Don't be too sure about the crickets, I fed all 140 of my T's from that same batch of crickets and only lost the metallica. Admitedly, that doesn't seem to be very good odds statistically, but I have a growing suspicion that it's a very isolated cricket that causes it and maybe it's linked to a specific T or conditions as well. Sort of a combination of factors that trigger the DS. But the only external influence that my T's get is crickets!! Nothing else at all.....
Btw, my klugi did last about 4 months mature, so it wasn't all doom and gloom. I just think that males can deteriorate quite quickly if they exert themselves a lot and it just seemed to speed up and highlight his original problems.

[Nicola Dolby]

This has to be the most riveting thread I've ever read here, but can I make a few points?
First is anyone here planning to do a study into this deseise, so we can find a cure? I know Richard Gallon and Ray Gabriel have been doing a large study with dead tarantula specimens, have they had any dyskenetic specimens and noticed any difference from the "norm"? Clearly hydration is an issue, so would this indicate a bacterial infection? Or is the dehydration a side product brought on by the theraphosid's immune system like humans getting a "temperature when our bodies fight a cold (do tarantulas have an immune system as such?) On the subject of humane killing then obviously the quicker the better, but not at all if it can be avoided. On the subject of killing for food, that steak I'm going to eat tonight was a cow and someone killed that cow for food. Anyone who doesn't like killing for food (as long as its as quick and as humane as possible) don't eat steak!!! Tigers kill antellope as quickly as possible to conserve energy, I doubt they give a damn about the antellope's feelings on the matter. Finally Richard there are lots of barmy organisations as you say, But not all of us interested in animal welfare are two sandwiches short of a picnic (proud member of the RSPCA speaking). Phew, I think that covers most things.

[Nils Croes]

At this moment there are indeed studies being conducted. Whether this will lead to a cure, I'm not sure. You're trying to solve a problem before even knowing what it is. First we need to know what it is and what causes it, then we look at how to prevent it and after that we can start thinking of a cure. Although I wouldn't be too sure about actually finding a cure. You can't inject a cure with a needle in a tarantula, the only proper way in is through the stomach.

There are widespread diseases amongst humans that don't have a cure and developing one for tarantulas might cost too much thus making prevention the only suitable thing. Don't hold your breath because studies don't aren't done overnight, it might take a lot of time before anyone can bring out anything concrete.

[Nicola Dolby]

Thanks Nils, its good to know the problem is being addressed. Though with thwe variation of symptoms I've heard it might not turn out to be one problem!

[Colin D Wilson]

our research..... so far 6 months, no concrete evidence, lots of hypothosis.

lack of time due to a few personal setbacks over the last few months has slowed things down my end. Plus the labs we have been using have been utilised for the investigation of some agricultural issues.