what constitutes overfeeding?

[WayneYasinski]

its kinda funny that i bring this up, because i hear and see this being said or brought up all of the time in our hobby. usally with no real basis for the comment, other than to say your T looks fat. so i guess I'm just trying to understand what the precedence is or if there is one for overfeeding a T....

an example: I've talked to a few people who have witnessed and documented prey items taken by wild tropical T's and they found with these tropical T's(ones found in rainforest's of some kind)....the frequency at with they consume food is much greater... if not is more of a frequent occurrence, then we would expect for wild T's... mostly because they are surrounded by a large number of readily available prey items(such as vertebrate type food). as opposed to locally found desert species, which might come across prey only a very limited number of times...so would this make the frequency at which T's consume prey a locale trigger, as opposed to a genetic one??? or would feedings be more species specific?? so being that most T's are opportunistic by nature anyway... its kinda hard for me to belive we actually can over feed a t.....I'm not saying it isn't possible but there does come a time when even my T's will refuse food...so this i guess brings me to my question.."what constitutes overfeeding???"

one can almost conclude that size of prey most determines frequency of feeding(IE a mouse or frog or lizard)...but is feeding an adult T, 1-2 crix's a week over feeding??? or a large roach once a week??? just trying to see what the consensus is out there.....thanks for the input

wayne

[Steve McIntyre]

Hi Wayne, I don't think it's possible to overfeed them as T's will stop feeding once they are full, even though some, namely Lasiodora parahybana, will take a large amount of crickets, etc, in one feed. Once a T is full, it will rest until it has utilised the energy created by the food, either by growing or moving. I've noticed my parahybana wrapping several crickets in silk and then carrying the 'parcel' around, probably to eat later. I suppose the tarantulas equivalent of a Donar Kebab

[Peter Lacey]

This is a question I've pondered over for the last month. Being new to the hobby I've had similar concerns and battled with my own instincts (feed them daily) against the info I've found on the net (feed them once a week/month).
I haven't yet found instances of people over feeding their Ts and would like to believe the T will stop eating when its had enough. In this instance I guess you'd tell when the insects are roaming the enclosure for more than a couple of days.

However, looking back at my learning process with tropical fish it was certainly easy to over-feed certain species which resulted in a few bloated deaths!

It will be interesting to hear other peoples views on this.

[Peter Lacey]

...I've noticed my parahybana wrapping several crickets in silk and then carrying the 'parcel' around, probably to eat later. I suppose the tarantulas equivalent of a Donar Kebab

oooh, I wonder if my Klugi would do the same. I haven't seen her parcel up food in this way but I have read of another owner feeding crickets, then locasts and finally a pinkie within the same day with all of them eaten!

[James Box]

T's are opportunistic feeders, so it's likely that they will eat and eat and eat some more, given the chance. in the wild, their meal may only once in a while, so they eat as much as they can, in case it's a long wait til the next feeding.
some have evidently witnessed this behaviour in captivity as well, meaning that the more we feed, in theory, the more the tarantula eats. in the end, all sorts of things can go wrong. the abdomen could split, their metabolism could be sped up (and their life subsequently shortened), moults may end up rushed and thus problematic (which is often lethal).
in my own limited experience, i've had T's ignore food entirely for weeks and even in one case for months. this usually occurs with the slower-growing species, however. it's called fasting, and sometimes heralds a moult, and sometimes it's just an indication that the T is simply not in the mood.

to be safe, you would be wisest to limit the feeding. i feed my T's one large cricket or locust a week for the adults, one or two tiny crickets for the slings.
a good sign of a healthy tarantula is that the abdomen is larger than the carapace. i'm not talking about a massive difference, though. i may be wrong, but twice the size is probably good enough, maybe even a bit smaller.
males however can have smaller abdomens without it being a bad sign, so this isn't a hard and fast rule, just what i personally aim for. i may be wrong about the ratio, so if anyone knows better, feel free to correct me!!

the risk, especially during the growth of a sling, of bad moults and a shorter life span, is simply not worth it in my opinion.
this isn't an omnivore that needs to eat fairly constantly (like us, or more specifically me lol)...it's a predator. predators have mastered the ability to last for ages on a single meal, knowing that the next one simply doesn't grow on trees (sorry, couldn't resist).

one problem with having only one T is that the prey items may die before you use most of them. you can limit this by giving them food and water as well, such as cereal or cricket feed from the pet shop.

hope that's helpful.

[Louise~Nichols]

Hi Wayne,
I usually try to make sure that my tarantulas' abdomens are no wider/bigger than 1.5 times the width of the carapace. I guess overfeeding could be classified by saying that if your tarantula can't support its bodyweight and lift itself to walk, then it has been overfed!

This could also be along a similar vein to *power feeding* in snakes when they are young...cramming a lot of feeds in with little break time, ie every day...this could then impact the health and dimension of the specimen when it reaches adulthood, as well as possibly being the underlying cause for other problems such as failure to breed successfully...but that's just my mental musings on the matter!

[James Box]

regardless of it all being opinion and conjecture, the risk is one that i personally would not want to take!

[Ray Gabriel]

Having found many species of theraphosid in the wild, the only one i ever found with a huge abdomen was a female P. smithi at the start of the breeding season.

All the others have had abdomens that hobbyist would class as starved.

Abdomen size is one of the criteria for judging in the competitions at the Exhibition (the criteria are soon to be reviewed from what was said at the AGM) and huge larddys dont stand a chance.

I try to keep my non mated females and younger specimens with abdomens no wider than the carapace, think about it (YES I KNOW I AM TLKING ABOUT MYSELF) if your gut is wider than your shoulders would you be considered healthy??

Ray

[James Box]

well that's good enough for me!
and yes, i have to shrink my abdomen down to the size of my carapace as well!

[WayneYasinski]

thanks everyone for your help..it does seem to be more of a problem over here in the states verses overseas...could this be the type of prey that is being offered or how we raise prey items..such as roaches and crixs on higher protein diets or fattier foods per-say???

there is also a curiosity to feed larger T's bigger food items, such as pinky mice or frogs??? is diet closely watched in your feeding practices or is it a more casual, happy go lucky feed whats available technique???
thanks wayne

[James Box]

i reckon if you're going to feed something a prey item as large as a mouse (hope it's pre-killed for both the predator and prey's sake!), seeing as it's probably twice as big as a locust, i'd wait twice as long to feed afterward. or longer!

Ray (or anyone else who knows), would you consider a slightly slimmer abdomen to be beneficial for slings as well?
i may halve their diet. been giving them two small crickets a time, and aiming for about 1.5 to 2 times the carapace size where possible. if i was over-feeding them, it would possibly account for some of the deaths i've had.

[Craig Bellamy]

In my opinion, do you want your tarantula to be active and interesting? or do you want it to hide away in its burrow for months doing nothing?

This goes especially for the adult T.blondi(often known for being rather boring). A blondi quickly becomes lazy when he realises he is getting surplace food.

While people may enjoy seeing their beast consume large prey, you would get a far more active and interesting blondi from feeding it only one small cricket every 2nd evening at say 7pm. That way, it will be active and waiting for you to return from work.

We are much the same, halve your meals and see how much more active you become. We like animals become more alert to look for food.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone can carry out these experiments on different species and log how their activities change.

[James Box]

personally, i don't care how "entertaining" my T's are. i only want them content and healthy.

[Craig Bellamy]

personally, i don't care how "entertaining" my T's are. i only want them content and healthy.

It would still be healthy, in fact healthier as that's what they are likely to get in the wild. Over feeding does not make a tarantula any happier than overfeeding a human.

If thats the case, then you should rather leave them in a reserve and fund it. Keeping tarantulas is a hobby, it's not conservation. A hobby is there to entertain us. right? I know I enjoy seeing my tarantulas move being active, hence why people don't always go for T.blondi's as they can be motionless for months.

[Ray Gabriel]

Ray (or anyone else who knows), would you consider a slightly slimmer abdomen to be beneficial for slings as well? if i was over-feeding them, it would possibly account for some of the deaths i've had.

Hi James,

Hmm this is a hard one, i am told (and i am not sure if i am at liberty to say which species) that some species actually benefit from the spiderlings being over fed/ well fed.

if you think about it, female spiders will (NormallY0 hatch thier eggsacs at a time when nature has supplied an abundance of food for the spiderlings IE, eggsacs will normally be timed to hatch at the start of a rainy season not in the middle of a dry season, as there will be more small food in the rainy season. But i would also say that some spiderlings maybe the slower growing species will not do to well on an abundance of food.

or do you want it to hide away in its burrow for months doing nothing?

What do they do in the wild?, cool season dry season???

personally, i don't care how "entertaining" my T's are. i only want them content and healthy.

Well said,

Keeping tarantulas is a hobby, it's not conservation. A hobby is there to entertain us. right?

So as long as the spiders "entertain" you it dosent matter that you dont house them properly, over feed them, stress them out etc as long as you are "entertained"?

Its a good job that the majority of people here see thier spiders as living creatures and not "toys", if people want "entertainment" get an X box or a game boy and stay away from living creatures which in captivity depend on us for thier care and survival.

Ray