a blue P.subfusca????

[Peter Lacey]

Hi Malcolm, welcome to the forum, I was wondering when you'd appear in this thread
I purchased the Klugi from you last year - she's still her old mechanical self.

You refer to the communal benefits, is this something you've noted in adults too?

[Malcolm Potts]

Hi Malcolm, welcome to the forum, I was wondering when you'd appear in this thread
I purchased the Klugi from you last year - she's still her old mechanical self.

You refer to the communal benefits, is this something you've noted in adults too?

I have only kept communal subfusca from slings - I have never been able to try this from adults - I can't even imagine how much 15 adult subfusca would cost...lol. However I have reared most (but not all) Poec species successfully from sling to adult communally.

The best I have found for this being subfusca/formosa/fasciata and rufilata. Interestingly - I have not been able to acheive this in several attempts with regalis without fighting.

I have kept adult Poec. males and females together communally in single sex groups- but once you introduce a male to a communal group of females - one female will become dominant - and will kill all other memebers unless you separate them.

Mal.

[paul towler]

blue subfusca,,,lol,,,

i to have been following this thread with interest , i dont know where the blue comes in but as i have probly been the most prolific breeder of this so called lowland form in the uk i feel i must have a say in this thread, i will say this all 6 of my original stock came from SLOVKIA bought as slings in september 2004 all from 2 diff females wild cought 3 from each female maturing into 4 females 2 males so far 6 eggsacks 1 to a very imature female small sack but spoilt as the female did not rotate the sack ,so it was spoilt , the next sack was from another female and produced 88 slings from 93 eggs, the next sack was produced at 100 deg,f still with the male in tank, witch was spoilt ,the next 2 were good as well and as of boxing day i have a new sack ,,looks good so far ,,all good sacks left whith females for about 5 weeks n,2s when opened all kept in high humidity most of the time kept in the same shed as other pokeis but slightly cooler part of shed, but as mal said will web in and stop feeding when to cold or to dry , i have no comunial groups as adults , i have only witnesed one female atack on a mature male and that was in the last 3 months ,my own fault i had a male mature but no female adult to put him to, so i put him in with a subadult female she took off one of his palps and one leg, he is still ok and doing sperm webs ,the female has since molted. i bought these as subfusca ,but the person i bought them from started calling them lowland?? so i did the same??? as to weather there are 2 forms i will leave that to people who know there stuff, to me its a spider i like high or low form , and ray you have one of my first breeding of subfusca i gave you one at the bts show last year along with a singerpore blue, it was about 3"or more leg span as to the gender male or female ???? hope this gets sorted soon ,it would be great for there to be another sort of pokei , but lets wait and see ??????????????????????????????????

[Chris Sainsbury]

how did you here about the rufilata x subfusca you make out like i told you about them there was 2 people who fell to..... etc, etc, etc

You Never told or mentioned anything about this breeding to me until now Simon. But yes I did know about it anyway but was not my news to say anything about it. I won't say my source of this except to keep in the Starwars theme of things, that many Bothan's died bringing this information to me! Besides I enjoy the thought of you wondering about this and being I suspect a little anoyed.

You need to see what I quoted to understand this comment:-

According to Simon they have been crossed though?

but so you don't have to back track too much, I was refering to where you said:-

maybe he has mixed bloodline male lowland x highland since there is a couple of people who have crossed the 2 forms so there is not going to be 2 forms for long i will never mix the 2 forms since , if there can be 2 forms of other speices why not subfusca there markins are clearly not the same ??

Cheers for the extra infos though.

Chris

[Phil Rea]

Well I am neither an elder, old guard, nor strictly speaking a newbie I guess, but what I will say in agreement with the statements in this thread is that colour is definitely not a reliable taxonomical tool.

A good example is the true spider A. diadematus. They can vary from red to black, brown to beige. They are still the same species though.

I keep P. subfusca but have never kept any of the so called lowland form, so I can't comment on collection loci/temps/behaviour/morphology for these.

We can all say this and that, but until they are examined by a taxonomist and/or subjected to DNA testing, then we will be none the wiser.

[Chris Sainsbury]

sorry but it had to come at some point even if it is rather crap.

Which one are you? (come on think about it)

[wesley flower]

colour is definitely not a reliable taxonomical tool.

sorry to quote you phil i know you are not the first to say this, but i have read that the main way to distinguish species of poecilotheria being the ventral leg markings etc, if this is not using colour and patterning what is?

i would love to get a chance to go over some deads of the Poecilotheria genus remove all the pile hair etc and have someone id them, ( i would love to give it a go at this myself if anyone is perpared to send me some)

so if i am not mistaken.........colourings and patterning are a taxonomic tool (along with alot of other factors)

if i am wrong (a few beers down the road) can someone please explain

[Simon Goldsborough]

You Never told or mentioned anything about this breeding to me until now Simon. But yes I did know about it anyway but was not my news to say anything about it. I won't say my source of this except to keep in the Starwars theme of things, that many Bothan's died bringing this information to me! Besides I enjoy the thought of you wondering about this and being I suspect a little anoyed.

You need to see what I quoted to understand this comment:-

but so you don't have to back track too much, I was refering to where you said:-


Cheers for the extra infos though.

Chris

not anoyed mate because i know who told you i wont loose any sleep over it so you will have to find some other way to wind me up LOL , just shows who i can trust ,

[Chris Sainsbury]

not anoyed mate because i know who told you i wont loose any sleep over it so you will have to find some other way to wind me up LOL , just shows who i can trust ,

If only that was a true statement lol

[Phil Rea]

sorry but it had to come at some point even if it is rather crap.

Which one are you? (come on think about it)

Not entirely sure what you are saying here Chris. Would have been easier if you just told me which one you think I am and why (or maybe if the pictures were bigger it might have helped )

Elder, old guard, noob, and spider t wearing saddo? Hmmm...

sorry to quote you phil i know you are not the first to say this, but i have read that the main way to distinguish species of poecilotheria being the ventral leg markings etc, if this is not using colour and patterning what is?

i would love to get a chance to go over some deads of the Poecilotheria genus remove all the pile hair etc and have someone id them, ( i would love to give it a go at this myself if anyone is perpared to send me some)

so if i am not mistaken.........colourings and patterning are a taxonomic tool (along with alot of other factors)

if i am wrong (a few beers down the road) can someone please explain

Feel free to quote me Wes. I did say it

Patterning and colour are not the same thing though, and spiders can change colour dependant on how far from a moult they are. Have you seen a pic of a brown G. pulchra? I have, and after moulting, it was the normal silky black

[Simon Goldsborough]

wc highland female subfusca , cb lownad female with a male the female are the same size

[Ray Gabriel]

was the male seen? if so was he the same varient as the female?

wild caught if i remember correctly

true line breeding is a form of selective breeding but close relatives are not used ie not mother-son or sibling mmatings more cousins and auntie- nephew etc

EHHH NO I have worked on 2 of my own strains of corn snakes, the last thing you do is use widely related material, you use the closest related amterial possible so you know there is a least some of the gene in what you are breeding. Go and see how you get an albino from 2 heterozygus specimens and you will see what i mean

sorry kosher is a hebrew word meaning fit to describe a peice of food as 'fit' to eat (jewish dietry laws). i used the word to illustrate that crossing is not good and possible against the law of nature in some humans eyes.

You were refering to hybrids

[Ray Gabriel]

Ray
Wise words young padiwan, the force is indeed strong with you!



Mark
P.S Nice use of the word old guard, can I claim that as my invention - please

All yours master

[Ray Gabriel]

Interestingly - by far the most expensive of which are a couple of "normal" slings bought from Ray - dealers making money???

not exactly slings were they Mal? as they sat in Denmark for a couple of months till the weather got warmer before they could come across.............. and didnt you want the smallest one as a better chance of being female?

I have a communal group of adult male "lowland form" subfusca - if you would like any for study Ray?? but no-one is getting any of my ladies until they die of old age. Mal.

Are they mature when you say adult? if they are going i will pass them onto Andy you do realise they will be pickled? cheers

Ray

[Ray Gabriel]

sorry to quote you phil i know you are not the first to say this, but i have read that the main way to distinguish species of poecilotheria being the ventral leg markings etc, if this is not using colour and patterning what is?

you can tell the species without colour, even really old specimens once they start to dry out a bit from the alchohol will show some of the pattern, therefore you can ID the species, but the leg pattern is NOT the only way there are other taxonomical features which can help.

OH and if the specimen is DRIED its even better all you have to do is turn it over.

dont try to mix up colour and pattern you will only confuse yourself.