Just how many Chile Roses are there?

[Andrew Ferguson]

I was always led to beleive that G. Rosea was the scientific name for Chile Rose, yet I've seen some places give it its old name G. spatula. Then this weekend I went to a very reputable pet shop in Leeds that had some spiders on show and one was a very beautiful example, but just labelled Chilean Rose. No scientific name. Yet on their website it is calle G. cala and if you navigate the site you find this bit of information:

The Chilean Rose is one of the most common species kept in captivity. Though there is alot of confusion over its name. The tarantula shown above is in fact a Chilean Common (Grammastola cala) though in the pet trade it is often called the Chilean Rose. The real Chilean Rose (Grammastola rosea) is very similar though, as its name suggests, is either bright red or pink in colour. Many other pet shops claim that their Chilean Commons are Grammastola rosea but we know better!

Now as someone new to the hobby, this information can be quite confusing, or should I just heed the example of a book I bought today that says the common names should be taken with a pinch of salt and rely solely on the scientific name? Just as I'm all set to go, something seems to pop up that contradicts information I've already read.

[Phil Rea]

Grammostola rosea (Walckenaer, 1837) is the only valid scientific name for the Chile Rose at the moment. G. spatulata and G. cala have both been synonymised with G. rosea.

[Phil Rea]

The Chilean Rose is one of the most common species kept in captivity. Though there is alot of confusion over its name. The tarantula shown above is in fact a Chilean Common (Grammastola cala) though in the pet trade it is often called the Chilean Rose. The real Chilean Rose (Grammastola rosea) is very similar though, as its name suggests, is either bright red or pink in colour. Many other pet shops claim that their Chilean Commons are Grammastola rosea but we know better!

Utter tosh. How can this be the case when G. cala is not even a valid species!

Yep. Take common names with a very large saucerful of salt

[Andrew Ferguson]

You can understand how my confusion set in. The spider on show looked liked a remarkable specimen and the store (I'm not mentioning names as I'm not sure that is allowed!) has a fantastic and established reputation. But when they made a comment like that, which I've not heard on any T website, I just thought I'd ask the real experts.

[Ray Gabriel]

I was always led to beleive that G. Rosea was the scientific name for Chile Rose, yet I've seen some places give it its old name G. spatula. Then this weekend I went to a very reputable pet shop in Leeds that had some spiders on show and one was a very beautiful example, but just labelled Chilean Rose. No scientific name. Yet on their website it is calle G. cala and if you navigate the site you find this bit of information:

The Chilean Rose is one of the most common species kept in captivity. Though there is alot of confusion over its name. The tarantula shown above is in fact a Chilean Common (Grammastola cala) though in the pet trade it is often called the Chilean Rose. The real Chilean Rose (Grammastola rosea) is very similar though, as its name suggests, is either bright red or pink in colour. Many other pet shops claim that their Chilean Commons are Grammastola rosea but we know better!

Now as someone new to the hobby, this information can be quite confusing, or should I just heed the example of a book I bought today that says the common names should be taken with a pinch of salt and rely solely on the scientific name? Just as I'm all set to go, something seems to pop up that contradicts information I've already read.

Yep forget common names, they can be made up to suit and no matter what some people might tell you there is no "official common names" only official scientific names.

first there was G rosea, a theraphosid described from Chile, then there was G. spatulata (collecting data says Mexico but that is obviously wrong) described from Chile, then G. cala was described also from Chile, Now then without examining the type material a German taxonomist decided that G. spatulata and G. cala were the same thing and both were the same as G. rosea.

SO that is where it comes from, any of this group of spiders from Chile should be sold as G. rosea, as the synonymy was accepted, but many people believe that the name should not ahve been accepted as the type specimens were not examined ( i dont even think the type specimen (if there was one) of G. rosea even exists now), and with 3? 4 ? 5? similar species/colour forms known from Chile the description cannot really say which is which,
so the whole G. "rosea" thing is a bit of a muddle.

But unless the people from your "ruputable" reptile shop have a theraphosid taxonomist working for them who has examined all the relevant types then NO they cannot say they know better.

Hope this helps

Ray

[Phil Rea]

As Ray has pointed out, scientific names (for Zoological organisms) are regulated by the ICZN (International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature) and their code. Botanical taxa (taxonomic groups) are regulated by the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature.

Common names are regulated by no one.

[Andrew Ferguson]

Over the past two days I've visted 4 pet shops and only two stocked spiders and scorpions. The reputable one, despite its incorrect blurb on its website, just gave me a good feeling about the place. It was clean, all the animals looked healthy and its fairly local to me. The other only had one spider, hidden away in a tiny room and I just got a bad feeling about the place. I know that is no real basis on which store to go with, but the "reputable" one will most likely get my custom. I would go with one of the recommended online shops, but as my days off are Sunday and Monday, I would never be in to accept a next day delivery.

[James Box]

it's bad they got it wrong, though errors can and do happen, but saying they know better is definitely a bit much!
i'd hate to say it, but it sounds like "marketing" to me.
"buy from us, we're the real experts!"
hmm...

[Andrew Ferguson]

James I thought the same thing too. A bit of a bold statement. For some people it may have worked, but as I'm trying to do as much research as is possible beforehand, I thought it best to ask.

[James Box]

definitely!
i suppose the lesson is NEVER trust a shop's word...in fact always go to the real experts when possible! nobody here is posting info to make money.

[Tracy Sherwood-Farnfield]

I would go with one of the recommended online shops, but as my days off are Sunday and Monday, I would never be in to accept a next day delivery.

With regards to the next day delivery issue, I was also faced with the same problem working as I do 9-5 mon-fri and most on-line retailers wishing to ship mon-thur to ensure next-day. However, when I contacted the spider shop (www.thespidershop.co.uk) to arrange delivery with this conundrum they suggested shipping to my work address. They assured me that the littel spidey would be well packaged and would be fine left that way until I got home, which incidently I reach by public transport. Ruby did indeed arrive very well packaged in a non-discript cardboard box filled with polyestyrene chips, these were marked to indicate where the container with spidey inside was located. The container its self was a clear pot packed with moist tissue and little Ruby nestled happily in a little crevice of her own making. They even included a heat pad to keep her warm on her journey from Wales to Kent.

I let my colleagues know in advance that she would be arriving, but to be honest there was no need, it could just have well have been any of the countless other packages I recieve from on-line retailers

I just thought I would chuck that in, it might give you another option, at least for the purchasing of T's. As for food items/equipment, I just go for closest and cheapest.

[Andrew Ferguson]

I just thought I would chuck that in, it might give you another option, at least for the purchasing of T's. As for food items/equipment, I just go for closest and cheapest.

I would do the same thing, but as for the tarantula, I'm not sure. I work as a delivery driver (how ironic!) and I'm sometimes back after the staff in our office have gone home. I'm also aware that some people just wouldn't be comfortable knowing that there is a big hairy spider packaged up sat on a desk. Then comes my final conundrum. I cycle to and from work. I find it comfortable but then I have a decent suspension set up and can anticipate bumps, jumps and passageways. Not what I would call ideal for a small hairy spider.

[James Box]

Andrew, i'm sure the spider would be fine. if you don't want to bother people with the thought of a fat spider near them, you can just not tell them!
i've done that...though once i couldn't resist...my colleagues were fascinated, not horrified!

[Tracy Sherwood-Farnfield]

LOL, When I initially told me colleagues that I was having Ruby delivered to work, most fell somewhere between disgusted to horrified, but once she was there (actually more to the point - once they REALISED she was there) they expressed curriosity and before you knew it there was a mass 'show and tell' going on!

I agree with James, what they don't know won't hurt them!

I took Ruby home on what must have been the windyest night ever, I had put the box in a carrier bag to aid carrying but she was blown about a bit, and bumped along on a smelly bus and a packed train, she was asleep when I got home and opened the box - asleep! She travels better than I do!

[James Box]

indeed, you gotta figure the postal service, in their care and consideration, will drop the box, turn it upside down, shake it, throw it, etc. the T's well-insulated on the inside, though, and in most cases will just be annoyed and stressed at worst.
obviously the worst can happen, but a well-packed T stands a good chance of withstanding a few bumps and jostles.