What's happened to the spider shop?

[Nicola Dolby]

Sorry to hear your team lost Neil, mine did everything but win today (lucky Aston Villa!) You are right, everyone has a right to their opinion, and yes there is a problem with WC specimens at the moment. However there are two issues here. Firstly I do not believe Lee is guilty of exploitation, and I felt that when presented with a few appropriate figures people might understand the other side of the coin and stop this incessant abuse toward him. No one in the hobby is a 'holy untouchable', but neither should one individual be a whipping boy when it hasn't been established yet even if they are guilty of the exploitation they are accused of.

However my comments are not petty business squabbles, they are the reality of this hobby. And may I add in something also here. Last year I remember talking to Steve Nunn online about the apparent severe poaching of WC tarantulas in Queensland. I was surprised to find from Steve that the problem wasn't half as bad as was being made out, and that despite the stories they were still getting thousands of the little spids turning up in the wild every year just like before. Further the Brachypelma issue in Mexico is another example. Brachypelmas are protected under CITES rightfully, yet it might be interesting to speak to Andrew Smith or Paul Carpenter about how bad the plight of wild Brachys is from what they saw on their last few trips to Mexico. Excessive WC collecting is wrong, I agree, but witch hunts are also inappropriate, and it is better to get the real figures concerning a species/genus's plight in the wild before we start scare mongering about wild population extinctions.

[Neill House]

I agree wholeheartedly Nicola, and in my football defeated depression, was trying to take the thread away from one particular person (unsuccessfully), and generalise it. Just to clarify, I have heard nothing but good things about Lee and his shop, and I might have even bought a few things in the past. The customer service is up there with the best, and he knows what he is talking about.. so again, this is not particularly about him, and his business. Rather it is more about the way the hobby seems to be going... for when this peak has troughed, I am sure Lee will still be around, whilst a lot of others will have moved on to trying to make the next quick buck with yellow spotted Royal Pythons or something.

I won't stand for whipping boys and witch hunts, and won't partake in any such things.. debate, discussion and reason should be the order of the day. it will get us further

Now.. I sometimes think that I will be approaching a personal dilemma at some point.. for I know that I will have a species, not common in the hobby, but 'gettable' via the likes of someone like the fella mentioned. Would I use him? Yes, absolutely I would. Would I contemplate abandoning the species, ie not breeding, if only a WC specimen can be found? No, I wouldn't. The sum has to equate to more, and if I was successful at breeding this species, it would mean more in the hobby. The dilemma being that is it my desire to have that one species that facilitates the need for WC 'common' species in order to fiscally justify the one I wants collection? I think it probably is. It really is a catch 22, and a facilitator shouldn't be the focus of any outrage, but perhaps the likes of myself individually, and us all collectively?

[Nicola Dolby]

Thank you Neil, and I apologize, I misunderstood your post. By the way, who have you got next Saturday?

[Ray Gabriel]

Sorry cannot resist

Jens Name me one species of theraphosid where a population study has been done? without that there is no way of knowing what impact WC has on the population.

Cyrtopholis annectans? became extinct before the spider hobby started WHY? so people visiting the tropical island paradise would not be scarred of by big hairy spiders so they wiped them out,

Did you read Andy Smiths piece in the last journal about spiders in plastic resin? more are killed for the ornament trade than for the pet trade

Habitat destruction will make the next species of theraphosid extinct NOT the pet trade

You cannot get CB without WC fact

Give it a couple of years and CHile will re open they are probably closed (like Peru did for a while) to jump on the enviromental tourism band wagon

I also have a piece for a future BTS journal showing loads of dead Hadrurus scorps in plastic fridge magnets how many Hadrurus are exported for the pet trade maybe 50 a year

enough this keyboard is driving me nuts

Ray

[Neill House]

Thank you Neil, and I apologize, I misunderstood your post. By the way, who have you got next Saturday?

Carrick Rangers at home.. we should win easily.

Ray, this is the dilemma that you touched on, and that Nicola also mentioned. Accurate figures that let people know exactly what is happening out there in the real world, and not narrow perception based on what we can see in our own particular environs.

[Nicola Dolby]

Oh you'll win easily Neil.

We've got Notts. Forest in the cup in the week
Followed by Blackburn at home at the weekend

Still one win out of two isn't bad !!

[Jamie Cooper]

Well wait a second.. the facts are, as I have read here, correct, are they not?

Just to clear things up. When I told Jens to get his facts straight, I was talking about the situation regarding Lee being arrested under suspicion of smuggling. I was not talking about WC specimens.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I am well aware of that.

Jamie

[Neill House]

Just to clear things up. When I told Jens to get his facts straight, I was talking about the situation regarding Lee being arrested under suspicion of smuggling. I was not talking about WC specimens.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I am well aware of that.

Jamie

No problem Jamie. To be fair to Jen though, when that sorry broke, a lot did jump on the 'horrified' bandwagon, and then it was chip paper. A lot wouldn't have followed up, and after the faux disgust, would have forgotten all about it. Such is life, and I suppose it is to be expected in a small community.

[Peter Roach]

I did think of one word when I first read this on my mobile and it sounded vaguely like 'scallops'


Jens is a fine one to talk, has anyone checked out what he/she is keeping at the moment ?
Looks like at least one WC on that list. !!!

The keeping of invertebrates and in particular Tarantulas has grown a lot in the last 5-10 years but it is still an extremely small and specialist hobby. The amount of WC Tarantulas entering the hobby is so small that is a very small fraction of 1%, most inverts collected are destined for the table by the indigenous people who collected them.
To say that " In the future some species might be extinct in and the WC trade will be one reason for it." is just being naive.

In the future some species WILL be extinct and it will down to habitat destruction and nothing else.

[Ben Cook]

This is very interesting to read. I do think many people do not consider when buying non-domesticated animals they are potentially contributing to population decline in the wild. The animals are seen as 'pets' in the same light as completly domesticated animals such as dogs or cats. With non-domesticated animals I believe there should be a responsibility to use them as an educational tool more than a pet. I have only one Tarantula who I have seen for about 20 seconds in total, yet these 20 seconds have stimulated literally hours of research and reading. I feel that the harm done by the removal of an animal from the wild (my t. is captive bread) can be offset by the educational value of stimulating research and the quest for knowledge. Added to that the proliferation of these animals in the pet trade raises awareness of their plight in the wild and the knowledge of their habitats and the dangers faced (would so many people care about the amur leopard if they had not seen one at the zoo?)

I feel there is certainly a place for WC animals of all kinds as long as they are seen as 'specimins' rather than pets. And the proper management of the trade is vital to ensure it does not become unsustainable.

I apologise for my terrible spelling!

[Adrian Lightning]

So the answer to my original question is that the spider shop is in the middle of a move of premises and we be re-open soon! thanks.

Hells bells I only wanted to buy a couple of T's I don't know Lee or anything about his history i just know that I have never had a problem with him and can only go on my own findings.

[Neill House]

So the answer to my original question is that the spider shop is in the middle of a move of premises and we be re-open soon! thanks.

Hells bells I only wanted to buy a couple of T's I don't know Lee or anything about his history i just know that I have never had a problem with him and can only go on my own findings.

Just right!

[James Box]

TSS supports captive breeding...why import stuff when people will breed it for you?

also, if you have 100 AFs in a colony in the wild, and each produces 50-100 spiderlings, of which hardly any will survive due to competition and predation, how long do you think it'd take to re-populate that area? one, maybe 2 sacs? less competition means more of those would survive.

it's rare that a collector/importer makes a dent on a population.

also, newsflash: if you own a spider, it or its parents or its grandparents will have been WC. this makes you a hypocrite.

[Colin D Wilson]

Thread question - Whats happened to the Spider Shop?
Thread answer - they're moving premisis and will be back up and running in the near future (just like it said on their site)


See where i'm going here ???

[Neill House]

Ach but Colin! That is boooorrriiiinnnggg!!!