Myths...

[Stanley A. Schultz]

One and All - I have just completed a set of webpages that I have thought were badly needed for a long time now. I'd like you to review them and, if necessary, make suggestions about them. Note that these represent only the first official versions. Some fine tuning should be expected as time passes. Please go to Myths, Misconceptions, Mistakes, Perpetuated by Tarantula Enthusiasts. Note the subsidiary links to target pages. More topics are planned for the future. Thanks in advance. Enjoy your little 8-legged miracles!

[Chris Graham]

I understand what you're trying to do (well I presume I do?) by trying to educate people to the fact that tarantulas aren't the monsters Hollywood would like to portray them as! Although I disagree with the following statements...

Tarantulas don't bite. (Well, most of them anyway.)

Many tarantulas can and will bite, be that a Brachypelma, Grammostola or any of the other species which are recommended to new hobbyists. Obviously there will be individuals that seem more relaxed and will allow handling although this behavior can vary vastly between moulting cycles. I don't think its the best thing to tell someone to assume it wont bite but maybe its best to make them more aware that they can & from time to time will bite. Not to mention the fact that most people, when bit will have the natural response to fling the tarantula off the wall etc.

Tarantula bites aren't fatal and don't even cause permanent harm. (True.)

Whereas there are no reports of death from a tarantula bite there is the possibility of an infection from the wound, which could quite easily lead to other problems.

Tarantula bites don't hurt very much, if at all. (Well, most of them anyway.)

After reading many bite reports from old world species of tarantula I find this a bit of a silly statement with reports mentioning of up to 3-6 months (even longer sometimes) recovery periods from such tarantulas. Muscle pains & even respiratory problems doesnt sound like much fun to me!

As I mentioned previously, yes tarantulas aren't the scary nasty things of movies but they still can & will bite. I believe its better to teach people that they need to be treat tarantulas with respect & due care rather than to lull them into a false sense of security and risk them becoming the next "red top" page filler to be posted in the forum, prevention is always better than cure.

[Stanley A. Schultz]

I understand what you're trying to do (well I presume I do?) by trying to educate people to the fact that tarantulas aren't the monsters Hollywood would like to portray them as! Although I disagree with the following statements...

I understand what you mean. It'll take me a few days to change that. Please be patient.

[Ray Gabriel]

Tarantula bites aren't fatal and don't even cause permanent harm. (True.)

Whereas there are no reports of death from a tarantula bite there is the possibility of an infection from the wound, which could quite easily lead to other problems.

NAH I have had 27 bites (not including nibbles from young pokes) and no infection..........................this is just scare mongering.......................no cases to back this statment up.................one of the reasons you dont need to quarentine tarantulas when importing is that they dont carry any infections, diesases etc ..............if someone gets bitten (by anything) and dosent clean the wound (especially in the field) its not the animal that bites thems fault.

R

[david clarke]

It is a medical possibility that any wound may become infected, whether carefully cleaned or not. Although Tarantulas may not carry infections or diseases it's last meal may do, remenants of this could still be on the fangs... How long ago was this meal? Also, there are many organisms, in every day life, that are more than capable of infecting any wound and unfortunately, the cause of the original wound is going to be the focus of the blame... Better to cover all bases IMO.

[Christian Elowsky]

Is there a single peer reviewed report of infection from a tarantula bite anywhere? I look every year in the various databases available. Rick West gave a deposition that tarantulas carry "flesh eating disease" with zero peer reviewed data to back it up, nor even anecdotal evidence I can find anywhere.

His statement can be seen in post #167 here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?208990-German-Tarantula-Breeder-Sven-Koppler-sentenced-for-smuggling-tarantulas-today&p=1885793&viewfull=1#post1885793

The very scary thing is that it was picked up and spread worldwide. I'm quite sure it even showed up in the UK in the tabloid style newspapers. Such nonsense is being used to threaten our hobby here in the US. And while Stan and I do occasionally disagree, I completely support him in this.

So if anyone has any supporting information, please please share it!

Sorry for the tirade, ignorance just gets me all bothered.

Christian

[Ray Gabriel]

Yep I agree with you 100%

Ray

Is there a single peer reviewed report of infection from a tarantula bite anywhere? I look every year in the various databases available. Rick West gave a deposition that tarantulas carry "flesh eating disease" with zero peer reviewed data to back it up, nor even anecdotal evidence I can find anywhere.

His statement can be seen in post #167 here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?208990-German-Tarantula-Breeder-Sven-Koppler-sentenced-for-smuggling-tarantulas-today&p=1885793&viewfull=1#post1885793

The very scary thing is that it was picked up and spread worldwide. I'm quite sure it even showed up in the UK in the tabloid style newspapers. Such nonsense is being used to threaten our hobby here in the US. And while Stan and I do occasionally disagree, I completely support him in this.

So if anyone has any supporting information, please please share it!

Sorry for the tirade, ignorance just gets me all bothered.

Christian

[david clarke]

Ignorance!? Mmmmm well.

Tarantula bites aren't fatal and don't even cause permanent harm. (True.)

That is a pretty direct and final statement! Take into consideration the target audience. Medicine has vast and pretty conclusive evidence of infection through open wounds, regardless of the origin, even when cleaned and treated correctly. There is a saying I use when treating pre-hospital patients that is likely to apply to most medicine, " Never, never & never always. " So to publish a statement, so direct and final, I would consider a little foolish. Of course, that is only my opinion. As said, Tarantulas may not carry infection or disease however, other organisms can. Then there are any medical conditions that may be triggered, due to the INDIVIDUALS reation. So, let me put in words how I, and I'm sure many others, read the statement.

Tarantula bites are NEVER fatal and NEVER cause permanent harm. ( This is ALWAYS true )

Would it be more appropriate to publish a less direct and final statement, along with the correct care, so that in the unlikely event that you are bitten, the possible after effects are lessened? Especially with todays litigation.

The lack of evidence, directly, related to Tarantulas, does not mean that we should be ignorant of proven medical fact.

David

[Christian Elowsky]

The lack of evidence, directly, related to Tarantulas, does not mean that we should be ignorant of proven medical fact.

David

The data supports infections caused by openings in the epidermis. Nothing supports a correlation between an increased likelihood of infection if that wound was created by a tarantula. Thus, stating anything about tarantulas and infections is equal to needing to put "avoid sharps in general" in literature about tarantulas. There is no legal obligation to say sharp objects (including fangs) might cause a break in the body's protection which may lead to infection, it's a given with all things sharp! No need to cast any extra doubt on our hobby.

Christian

[Stanley A. Schultz]

One and All -

Thank you all for your comments. Rest assured that I will mull over them quite thoroughly. And, I will rewrite that (obviously) contentious section of the webpage.

The fact that it causes so much concern raises a red flag to me, setting aside the details of the underlying arguments. My problem is that those webpages are already far too long and involved, so I need to be extremely careful about adding any more long winded qualifications or explanations. After all, the point was to debunk a bunch of myths, not write another book .

Now, however, I need to fix my water heater and take a shower. It's funny how the mundane things in life ultimately are the most important.

Enjoy your inflammatory, little, 8-legged rabble-rousers!

[david clarke]

Christian, I think you may have misunderstood the point that I'm trying to make. I'm primarily supporting Chris in his questioning of the published statement and his reasons for doing so. I'm certainly not casting any doubt upon our hobby. I at no time said that there is an increased likelihood of infection from a Tarantula bite. However, I do believe, that we in the Tarantula hobby, should be careful in the statements we make. Especially when attempting to rectify damage done, by those who don't know. As you said, infection can be contracted through any opening in the skin, whether caused by a needle, knife, wire, bite from a cat, a dog or indeed a Tarantula. It is therefore our duty to accept this ourselves, and provide information on the correct treatment, cleaning and medical advice to be sought, in the UNLIKELY event of a bite. We already do this ourselves and should not hide it away. The fact is, Tarantulas can, and will bite, if provoked. Why try to hide this? Why ignore the possible effects? Why not make people aware? If put across correctly, it could counter, the mythical, word of mouth and tabloid stories that have caused any damage. The BTS does not allow handling photographs on the site, or their facebook page. The BTS do not promote handling, primarily to protect the Tarantula and to protect themselves from legal action by persons who may have received a bite due to handling. It is therefore acceptable to assume, that the published statement above could, possibly, attract legal action.

David

[david clarke]

Stanley & Christian

Apologies, I posted that last 1 not realising that Stanley had already posted. It does contain my thoughts though.

David

[Christian Elowsky]

They do bite? I've been at this for nearly 20 years, and still no bites.

I do agree we do not want to end up having the BTS or any organization liable for statements, but unless the laws are quite different there, the above statements would not provide grounds for liability.

Also, it gives me a reason to ask for worldwide input on the literature.

Christian

[david clarke]

Please let me know if ya get anything interesting.

David

[Chris Graham]

Is there a single peer reviewed report of infection from a tarantula bite anywhere? I look every year in the various databases available. Rick West gave a deposition that tarantulas carry "flesh eating disease" with zero peer reviewed data to back it up, nor even anecdotal evidence I can find anywhere.

I recall that whole thread/situation and the way it was all handled, I think its best not to go into my views on that and keep on the topic in hand! I personally don't have (nor have I read) any papers or information regarding infections due to tarantula bites, although I have heard of cases where it has been questioned. I also firmly believe that if any big enough bite wound (by many different animals) is not correctly treated there is certainly a chance of an infection. I wrote.. "Whereas there are no reports of death from a tarantula bite there is the possibility of an infection from the wound". That is my personal view, nowhere did I say "You will get an infection".

The very scary thing is that it was picked up and spread worldwide. I'm quite sure it even showed up in the UK in the tabloid style newspapers. Such nonsense is being used to threaten our hobby here in the US. And while Stan and I do occasionally disagree, I completely support him in this.

I also agree the scare mongering of tarantulas & the hobby comes into disrepute far too easily, to a certain extent I think a lot of it is down to the "fear of the unknown". Many people don't know much about tarantulas other than what they've been spoon fed via the media, hence any chance to run such nonsense stories often will lead to print. Which we all know, isn't good news for the hobby.

Now I have noticed that Ray & yourself have only picked up on that one statement, which you both have the right to do so (in fact, I should've expected as much!). I'd just like to know if you disagree with the other points I made? Which I believe to be a lot more important than whether or not you may get an infection. My point being that many people will read those statements on Stan's webpage (mainly newer hobbyists looking for starter information on tarantulas) then attempt to handle a tarantula. Then they get bit, followed by the tarantula getting dropped/killed & then potentially even more bad press for the hobby.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I have never handled a tarantula, I have on numerous occasions always knowing of the consequences that it's my fault if I get bitten, luckily up to date I haven't been bitten although one day I most likely will. Although I don't promote it, I just felt Stan's webpage did & maybe to the wrong audience.

Chris