Everything you everwanted to know about the BTS.

[Grant Brown]

Hi Steve,

My understanding of the stuff deleted was that this was bickering between 2-3 members and not actually anything to do with the BTS.

What I mean, if you look at the initial comment, it basically states:

a) You should trial for a year and see what you think

b) the opinion was some journals were late, which was a problem
b1) the policy (whatever the specifics) were disagreeable to the user
b2) the running of society was disagreeable to the user

Frankly, none of those are out of bounds surely? Just my opinion, but I'd actually say the provocative comments were actually people saying "oh not him again" sort of comments rather than taking it at face value.

I actually feel if people would stop being so aggressive and defensive then the matter would not have arisen. Quite telling actually is that committee members are often calm about it and non committee members are the ones yelling from the rafters!

But I digress, since my comments were relating to people bad mouthing a forum and tarring everyone with the same brush, which I'm sure most would agree is dammned annoying.

[Peter Lacey]

I actually feel if people would stop being so aggressive and defensive then the matter would not have arisen. Quite telling actually is that committee members are often calm about it and non committee members are the ones yelling from the rafters!

I think its quite natural to defend something splurted in another forum aimed at a society outside that forum. Ive certainly done so many times. Unfortunately its usually to the same person and I always suggest he makes his points known to the BTS. To my mind if the false accusations weren't there then there'd be little need to defend.

I'm glad Ray has taken the opportunity to explain things. It certainly helps to explain the capacity of the society and I look forward to reading more.

Thanks Ray and thanks to all of the BTS committee for the very well appreciated work you put in.

[Ray Hale]

Whoaa guys, lets calm this down. There is no inter forum hostility on my part ( Im a member of the said forum) and I would ask you guys to remember that there are a lot of great froums with excellent information out there and the internet is big enough for us all. I gave the reasons for my answers and they still stand. Today I will be posting more information. In truth I am grateful to the other thread as without feedback, positive or otherwise then we cannot improve and as GRB says and I agree with him, many of the issues raised were valid. It is important that members know what we do and why. So lets put this back on topic.

Ray

[Ray Hale]

Part 2
Following on from my post about who runs the BTS and how we do it I will now explain exactly how the BTS is funded and what exactly happens to the money that you guys pay to be members.
As you know the current membership rates are as follows.
United Kingdom and European: £15
Rest of the World: £20.
This amount gives you membership to the BTS for a period of four journals not necessarily for one year. Let me explain.
It is no secret that in the early days of the club we struggled to produce the journals on time. This was, in part, due to the work-load of the then editor and often the lack of submitted articles. Journals would occasionally be two or three months late and this not only annoyed the membership but caused the then BTS secretary, Ann Webb, a huge amount of work. In those days the membership list was a hard-copy kept on filing cards. Ann did not possess a computer nor indeed did she wish to become a technophile and when a member came up for renewal Ann would send out a hand-written notice. Of course, this was all before the advent of the internet so communication was either by letter or phone and those who knew Ann (and she would forgive me for saying this) will tell you that she liked neither method of communication. Eventually, age and ill-health overtook Ann and Frank, and Angela and I took over the running of the membership lists. We looked carefully at Ann’s system and decided that it was in need of change. We transferred, with the help of others, all members to an Access database and decided that rather than run an annual membership we would change it so that each member would receive four journals throughout their membership period. This, of course, meant that if the journals were on time then you would indeed be a member for a year but, if they were late, you would still receive four journals before you needed to renew. Obviously this would often mean that you could well be a member for over twelve months and, on the odd occasion, less than twelve months. We worked with the editors (Pete and Richard) to ensure the journals returned to the required periodic publish date. This was achieved by Volume 24 and apart from the odd glitch we have remained more or less on time ever since. These days we are more stringent in our attempts to be on time and one of the reasons that Pete returned to dual editorship was to help achieve this.
All the posts on the Committee are voluntary and we have to fit the running club in around earning a living and paying the bills. It was clear that Richard needed assistance and Pete stepped up to the plate. An unenviable task I can assure you, especially when they receive one of Angela’s “where is the journal?” e-mails. So during your membership period you will receive four journals. Occasionally, depending on whether you have joined as the new journal is due we will send the old one out followed in quick succession by the next. In this event you may receive two journals in a relatively short time.
So, what exactly do we spend your money on in these dark days of recession? Well I can categorically state with true conviction that no BTS Committee member has ever gained financially from the club. Our current treasurer, Paul Carpenter, keeps a firm hand on the purse-strings and any request for any purchase (whether it be letterhead paper, advertising leaflets or even ink for the printer) must be first accompanied by a written request at a committee meeting . The proposed
purchase will then be discussed and Paul will decide if it is necessary or not. If it is, then he will authorise the purchase.
Nothing is purchased without an agreement. I will tell you we have had some very “interesting” discussions across the table. Any money in the BTS coffers is the property of the members and not ours so we make every effort to spend it wisely on your behalf.
A quick breakdown goes as follows. Each issue of the journal costs around £1200 to publish. It has been suggested that we get a “very” good deal on this but I would say that we use a registered publishers and we pay the going rate. Of course, some of you may know a better publisher and we are always looking for improvements. It really depends on the number of pages, the colour plates and the time scales given but we feel we are well looked after by our publishers as they do put all the journals in envelopes, stick the supplied address labels on and send them out. Any new member joining is processed . added to the datbase and Angela will send out their first journal from head office (our house!) We have a set number of journals printed each time and any surplus on the arrival of the next issue is usually archived (in our loft) and then distributed at the BTS Exhibition, often free of charge.
Each issue costs in postage £0.79 for the UK, £1.47 for Europe and £2.04 for the Rest of the World.
A quick calculation tells you that with a fluctuating membership of between 500 and 600 with 30% foreign membership the approximate postal cost for each issue is £400. If we add this to the publishing cost we can see that to print and post out one issue costs around £1600. Four issues therefore is £6400. I must stress that these figures are only very loosely calculated as it is completely dependent on membership numbers at the time. However, it soon becomes apparent that with an average subscription of £15 from 550 members there is not a lot of change. We must also bear in mind that we do not run a year to year subscription so the income fluctuates also. What money is left over is kept in the BTS accounts to allow us to produce a journal even if the membership numbers fall as indeed they do during times of recession (i.e. now). We have, however, been through recessions before and I dare say we will again but we are adamant that we will ride it out and with careful planning we will do just that. It has always been the stated aim of the BTS to keep funds available for two or three journals in hand and should the BTS ever fold for any reason we would hope to be able to make the necessary refunds to the members. I can report that at this time we are in healthy position and any member wishing for a breakdown of the 2010/2011 accounts may do so via email request to Angela.
So there you have it. What we spend your money on. I must add that we are very grateful to those members who make generous donations to the club and indeed to all members who support us so fervently.
I intend to cover both the BTS Lectures and the BTS Exhibition in a separate posts and will give a detailed report on how these events are financed and organised in those posts. It is worth remebering that without the subscriptions from membership we could not produce the journal and therfore we would not exist.

Again I would stress that these series of post are not intended to be seen as a backlash reponse to other forums they are merely designed to give our members and non mebers a clearer picture of what we are all about and hope that you will consider joining us at some stage.

PS Just as a point I dont normally write in bold italics. Its just that when I cut and paste it does it like this and I havnt figured out how to change it yet. and actually I quite like it......LOL
Edited by Admin: Changed to normal text.
Ray Hale
BTS Committee

[Colin D Wilson]

Nice to see we can all follow the request not to post on a thread until it is finnished.

Bit like a "DO NOT TOUCH - WET PAINT" sign eh

Top tip...lock it until finnished then open it once is finished.

Thought about locking, swapping, merging etc but it's running it's course quite ok at the mo with some "level headed" personal opinions and the discussion is constructive ... We can always just put Rays "Info posts" to the front of the thread and have the discussion following afterwards when the thread's run its course ..... i'm all for leaving "as is" unless it changes to a slanging match

[Mark Pennell]

Dear All
On a personal note I would just like to add, lets keep this on topic and not degrade the thread, which is and was created by Ray to answer a lot of questions and misconceptions about the society raised on the RFUK insect forum. A forum I am a member of and do very much enjoy visiting.

There is no interforum rivery here never has been never will be. The BTS forum is an open place and has been created, maintained and sculpted over the years to be a place of information and friendship amonst the tarantula keepers of the world, and BTS and non members alike can enjoy it all,with the knowleadge we run a tight ship and have never had off topic sections or places where people can rant and rave, or tollerate flamers or those hell bent on cuasing trouble.

This community forum, is as I am aware still and the only forum that has direct links to other forums on its main pages. We direct users to other sites we are not elitists or anything else, just hobbyists.

As a person named on the other thread, for some reason (I know not why? it was made so personal, I am not nor ever be the voice of BTS just a small cog in the works and a hard working worn out cog too boot ), I did feel I should have replied, however I personally dont have the time for such things.

Life is far to short and far to precious to be concerned about personal attacks.

I did contact the admin staff there and did voice a small concern, but was never replied too, but am aware that certain posts were edited and removed.

So left it there and rightly so..

Anyway lets read digest and take onboard the answers raised to the said questions, little bit of understanding, tollerance, patience and above all respect goes a long way.

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Mark Pennell
BTS Webmaster and geniune all round nice bloke - honest


Admin: Having just visited the afor mention thread, there were issues raise suggesting we were moderating a user and making it a one sided debate. This moderation was put in place back 04-04-10 at 11:28 PM, becuase of a complaint and break in the rules of this forum. I have removed this moderation queue, so the users post will apprear in realtime:

[Nicola Dolby]

Hi, thanks for the info. I hope this isn't going off topic but I remember it being mentioned at the lectures a couple of years ago that the BTS were going to set up a funding system for people involved in field exploration projects. Is this still happening or, given the current economic climate and its influence ( as Ray mentioned) has this been shelved? Also if the former, any chance of some articles on these field trips in the BTS journal?

[Mark Pennell]

Hi, thanks for the info. I hope this isn't going off topic but I remember it being mentioned at the lectures a couple of years ago that the BTS were going to set up a funding system for people involved in field exploration projects. Is this still happening or, given the current economic climate and its influence ( as Ray mentioned) has this been shelved? Also if the former, any chance of some articles on these field trips in the BTS journal?

Nicola as far as I know two such grants have been issued, as you know field work takes time and perhaps we will see some progress on these projects in due course.

The BTS reseach grant is an ongoing project and Stuart Longhorn's role on the committee is do in part to do with this.

Cheers
Mark

[chris carter]

The BTS has been a beacon in the hobby for many years, they act as a central point for enthusiasts to contact each other and to learn from experienced keepers, and i believe the hobby would not have been as big as it is without them.

The Chairman of Invicta when i joined 1997 was Tim Pudney a BTS committee member who taught me a lot, when Tim left the Hobby all together( ironicaly after a disagreement with the BTS) i took over the Club.

Running a small club like Invicta is a thankless task that takes all of my spare time, but i have a great committee to share the Burden.
I cant imagine the time and commitment it takes to run the BTS but none of them will complain, they do it for the love of the hobby. all organisations run on the few prepared to organise and the many who just turn up.

I have yet to disagree with any BTS policy but i may in the Future and it will be my right to voice that disagreement, asi t is my right to praise them.

A wise man once said you can please all of the people some of the time & some of the people all of the time, but you will NEVER please all of the people all of the time.

You dont have to join the BTS, i think they dont send out Press gangs, but even if you disagree with all they stand for ( strange i know) i think all would agree that the hobby would be worse off without them.

Chris

[Damien]

disregardeing the more than uncivil replies, aimed I guess more at me for for even bringing up such questions,
I am really pleased to see that issues are being cleared up and look forward to more posts from Mr Hale on this.

[James Box]

James are you saying that no one has the right to criticise the bts and those who do are nothing more than than muppets?
Is this what you have to expect from the members if you raise any points about the bts?
Is it not good that this thread or at least the first two posts in it (and hopefully a few more to come) have been made explaining the bts, what it is, who its run by, what it does etc to everyone who wants to read it?
Do you not think this could get more people to join, who may have had reservations to do so in the passed?
Did you and everyone else know all these details anyway?
Is there harm knowing these details?
If the criticisems had not been made would everyone be as aware as they are now about the bts?
Maybe once all has been explained and made clear the person/persons (of which I include myself) who criticised the bts will be able say that the bts does not sound so bad after all.

I find that the only real insults that have came out of all of this are by people such as yourself, who for some unbeknown reason find it offencive to question anything about the bts.

entirely useless and pointless thing to say much like the obi wan comment in the first place.

Nice to see we can all follow the request not to post on a thread until it is finnished.

Top tip...lock it until finnished then open it once is finished.

asking questions is of course OK where justified. my issue is that the BTS is essentially a resource you can use or not use. it is your choice. to assume there are conspiracies afloat is just silly. the BTS does not control your life or the way you enjoy your hobby.

my issue is with needless criticisms by people who clearly only want to undermine something. i consider anyone muppets who will attack things for no good reason at all. the bts is not a government agency with authority, merely a hub (and a useful and friendly one), and so one wonders, why the hate?

this is my last statement on this, as to keep responding to this is pointless as you clearly don't want to be convinced.

[Damien]

Who is assumeing there are conspiracies afloat? All I have done is ask a few very basic questions which is why I do not get your aggresiveness. I have not expressed any real hate either. If that was the case then I am quite sure would have not given the addvice I had given in my original post on that thread, which was to join for a year and see for yourself if you like it or not.
This is not an attack on the bts it is finding out more about them, and so far I have learned alot saying that the bts is not that bad but as for the members, well I am not so sure I would want to be associated with them any time soon based on the comments made so far. I also suspect the feeling may be a mutual one on this.

You say I clearly do not want to be convinced yet I say in the post before this:-

"I am really pleased to see that issues are being cleared up"

So I fail to see your hang ups here? Such a shame that a thread such as this should desend into a trash one.
Sorry everyone for even thinking about finding out more about the bts, I so wish that I handn't in so many ways now.

[MarkPorter]

Firstly I would like to say a big thank you to Ray for creating this thread. I know when I produce a post it is proof read and re-edited many times just to ensure I get all points covered. So I expect this took sometime out of an already hectic life.

As Chris Carter from Invicta said being on a committee take up your life, if not over it. I plan holidays / days off from work throughout the whole summer around Invicta. 'The husband & wives club' I consider it a blessing that my partner takes as much interest in the hobby as I do. She is often found giving up her weekends to help out Invicta at roadshows even when I am working so to direct a society the size of the BTS it has to be a family effort. Why should someone be kept off the committee when they are giving up so much of their free time running the society just because their partner is an existing committee member ?

I understand that it can seem at first the committee are 'clicky'. But once you make the effort to get to know these guys and girls as individuals you will see that could not be further from the truth. Each event the BTS hold there is always a social gathering which I advise everyone to come along to and take the opportunity to meet them. Trying to have an in depth conversation at the actual event is very limited as these guys are trying to run an event that has taken months to plan. They will never turn you away or say 'I am to busy' if you do approach them. They obviously get on as friends (otherwise the society would not last) but they will always make time to have a chat with anyone.

The committee are also trying to engage the members and find out our opinions - hence the listening group at the BTS exhibition in May.

I found this thread very informative so if some people took offence to the original post that caused this thread to be created calm down ! I have not read the post that caused this to be created apart form the extracts posted here. I think what matters is the out-come, which is a great thread that potentially will generate some new members and enlighten some existing ones,

I will wrap up by saying a big thank you to all committee member for giving up their free time to a hobby that we all love.

[Ray Hale]

Part 3: The BTS Exhibition
It must be said that when the internet first appeared the late Ann Webb was particularly sceptical about the impact that it would have on the hobby in the future. She felt that the internet would be the death of many societies. Thankfully her fears proved unfounded and now the vast majority of new members come from the internet. Many excellent forums have sprung up and some great friendships have been forged. In times of financial difficulty many people turn, thankfully, to their hobby. Tarantulas keeping whether you are a BTS member or not is still a relatively cheap one to be in. I remember sitting at a Committee meeting when Mark Pennell suggested we should have a website. I think the term I’m looking for is “cataplectic”. Ironically some years later when Ann and Frank had left the club due to ill health they became internet friendly and I was shocked one day to receive an e-mail from her. Anyway, the website was born and Mark began work upon it. It’s an area that I am unfamiliar with as I have limited computer skills and to be honest I find all talk of upgrades, gigabytes etc. etc. very tedious. Its Marks domain and I am happy to leave it there and I am sure at some point he may wish to write something about its running. However, the BTS Exhibition is my flagship.
The first BTS Exhibition was held in Ann and Frank’s garage with two dealers and twelve visitors in 1988! It quickly moved on to Chessington World of Adventure but the management’s desire to charge entry into the park and then into our exhibition soon scuppered this as a venue. Ann decided to move the event to Luton High Town Recreation Centre and this proved a great success for a number of years. I attended my first BTS Exhibition in 1992 at Luton High Town and was amazed at the array of spiders on offer. Early traders included Custom Aquaria, Mark Kent and Roy Dunn. Custom Aquaria still remain with us today. However the spectre of inflation was never far away and as costs soared the need to find a new venue became apparent.
I don’t know how many of you attended the 1993 Exhibition held at the Birmingham Nature Centre but those of you who did will have haunting nightmares about the whole day. It was too small and too crowded and the day ended with a rather nasty incident involving two visitors and the police (See Volume 9 no 4 BTS Journal for a report of the day’s proceedings). In fairness the fault lay with no one specifically except the centre. They had, in error, misinformed the then organiser of the event as to the amount of floor space that would be available. The day was resounding failure and questions were asked! Indeed it was this event that prompted me to write to the journal and complain most bitterly. Looking back now I wonder if I was seen at that time as just another BTS decrier LOL. The response I got back was curt, simple and polite. “Can you do better?” I knew that I could and I joined the BTS Committee in September 1993 as Exhibition Organiser for the 1994 event at Woodgreen High School. It is a role that I have served in now for the last 17 years. I will be honest here there are times when I would have quite happily walked away from the organising of the event but attempts to escape were futile and I always seemed to get caught and bought back. A bit like Steve McQueen in the Great Escape. Woodgreen High School was for us an ideal venue. It was two minutes from the M6 and as I then lived in the area it was and I selfishly admit it, easy for me. But in truth if you had to organise an event would you not put it on your own doorstep? The point was that it was central for all whether you came from the North or South. By 2006 Woodgreen High School had become a Sports College, the car parking had been built on and the PA disbanded. My helpful contact at the school had retired and I found myself negotiating with a very spider unfriendly head teacher. It was time to move on. A frenzied scramble to find another venue ensued but fortunately Mike Conabeer and his then girlfriend Sarah found the Coseley School and Leisure Centre and the rest is history. We have now been there 5 years and despite one or two generic problems that we continue to try to solve we feel it is good venue. There have been problems I will admit. The positioning of the halls is not ideal and congestion can occur. It does get very warm especially with 1000 people milling about but on the whole it remains a good venue for the Exhibition. However, as always, dark clouds gather on the horizon and this year the school “adjusted” their prices and it rocketed by a wapping 30%. The hire costs for the school are now well over £1300. This money is supplied by the BTS and as you all know the exhibitors pay for table space and as at any show and we charge an entrance fee. BTS members receiving a £25% discount on admission. All money raised on the day is put back into the coffers to allow us to organise the following year’s exhibition. The door money is counted by Paul and Angela, recorded and taken by Paul to bank. In truth the Exhibition is our biggest source of income and profit made on the event funds the society for the next year and allows us to run the lectures and fund the BTS Research Grant (Another post will explain this later)
Over the years we have been asked a number of questions such as “Why is it Birmingham?” or “Why do you not organise two a year” The answer to this is again simple. Angela and I originally came from Wolverhampton and moved away thirteen years ago. It was at the time easier to organise an event near to where we lived. We had discussed moving the exhibition south when we moved but felt that Birmingham was central to the UK, and that the school could be easily accessed by road (M6 and M5) and by train (there is a station on the main Birmingham to Wolverhampton line outside). Birmingham airport is accessible by train or car and the Grand Union Canal runs alongside the school, just in case you decided to come by barge. I admit It has been a bind living on the coast and having to drive 250 miles at least four times a year to hold meetings with the school but we have always tried to tie it in with family visits thus allowing us to save the club money by not claiming petrol expenses. Unfortunately when my father passed away at the backend of last year such a need to visit has ceased and I must now decide what the future holds. Organising two events a year is for me impossibility. Fitting one show is a nightmare so trying to organise two is a non starter. Another reason is that by having two shows I felt that the attendance would be split and this could feasibly have an effect on the much needed revenue from the show. We all work full time and I just don’t have the time or energy. I was recently accused of trying to monopolise the market with the BTS show and that I would not help others to organise shows in case it impacted on ours. I must stress that this opinion was not on any forum but by a private e-mail. I am astounded by this accusation. When Invicta announced their intent to organise an event Chris asked for my advice and I gave it willingly to them. The BTS even traded there. The BTS has always supported other events and if we can get to a show we will. (Next event is the AES Show in October) .Our Exhibition will remain, for the moment, in the Midlands. Whether we need to change venues in the future is a matter I must give some thought to. The BTS Committee do tend to give me a free reign on the show and for this I am grateful. Organising such an event is a massive undertaking but one that Angela and I do willingly. Over the years certain aspects of the day have come under fire from some quarters. But I would ask you to remember that the weekend is not just about organising a show for visitors to come along and buy spiders but it’s about everyone having a great family day out, meeting old friends, making new ones and generally enjoying the buzz... As I have said many times this is our hobby too and we should be allowed to enjoy it as well. If on the day you have issues over anything then please tell me. I don’t bite although I admit that I do get very stressed when things go wrong as a few people will tell you. Lasy year we were plagued with a bout of thefts form the tables and some expensive stock went missing. I can tell you this really annoys me. A few years ago I decided to give up the organising of the event after a particularly unpleasant encounter with a disgruntled exhibitor. After I had time to reflect I decided, with persuasion, to continue. Why? Because I have met some great people over the years, made some and continue to make long standing friends, learnt a great deal from other keepers and frankly I don’t want to walk away from it all.....yet!
See you at next year’s event that will be at
COSELEY LEISURE CENTRE ON MAY 20th 2012

Next Post will be The BTS Lectures...coming soon

[Peter Kirk]

Okay – my second go at posting this up……

I fully endorse the comments that Ray has made above – all of the Committee work extremely hard on the Exhibition before, during and after the event. Most of us travel up early the day before to help with the setting up and book into a B & B that evening so we can get to the Exhibition in order to get things up and running before the traders arrive. A number of us are sufficiently tired at the end of the day to book a second night at the B & B. All transport, accommodation, food, etc. is met out of our own pockets and not from BTS funds! It is essential for events such as this (Lectures included) that we have the support of our partners. I really cannot see the big deal about this and I am surprised it has even been considered to be any kind of issue.

One point I would like to raise is that of the Competitions we hold at the Exhibition. I am one of four judges responsible for making the decisions in respect of the Tarantula Competition and I am the sole judge in respect of the Photographic Competition. Angela Hale judges the Artwork Competition. I am aware that the decision in respect of the Photographic Competition is not always popular but photography, as with any form of art, is extremely subjective (I don’t like the work of Tracey Emin but I like that of Damien Hirst). The point is that a technically good photograph will not necessarily win over a less technically good photograph – take a look at the results of just about any photographic competition and you’ll see the same. The bottom line is that my (subjective) decision is final; you might not agree with my choice but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it so neither should you. If you don’t win, try again next year and, finally, if you can’t bear the thought of losing (however good YOU think your photos are) don’t enter in the first place. Having said that, the standard of the Photographic Competition is usually extremely high and it is often a difficult choice to decide the winning photo.

I have always made it clear that I am happy to discuss my decision either in the BTS forum or by personal correspondence.

The Competitions were always intended to be 'a bit of fun' but I am aware that people take them seriously. As judges, therefore, we take our decisions seriously, of that you can be sure.