a blue P.subfusca????

[Phil Rea]

Mating attempts. The spiders refuse to mate.

Interesting. Thanks Steevens

Someone should get some adults of these to Andy Smith by the sounds of it.

I haven't been keeping up with the pokie scene, but are their ventral leg markings the same for both supposed forms?

[Chris Sainsbury]

I was refering to this part :

Like I already said why would he lie? If someone told him that, they told him that. I'm not quite sure where it comes from that I have said I do not believe anyone?????

[Steevens DROGUET]

Hi Alex,

When you say 'cross', what exactly do you mean? Did the spiders mate or did they refuse to mate or show no interest? Did they produce sacs that were infertile or were no sacs produced from any successful matings?

What exactly happened?

Phil.

Mating attempts. The spiders refuse to mate.

[Phil Rea]

Hi Ray,

Thank you for your point of view.
Some (reliable) people have tried to "cross" these 2 so-called forms, and did never succeed. Do you have more informations about that ?

Cheers,
Alex

Hi Alex,

When you say 'cross', what exactly do you mean? Did the spiders mate or did they refuse to mate or show no interest? Did they produce sacs that were infertile or were no sacs produced from any successful matings?

What exactly happened?

Phil.

[Chris Sainsbury]

Cheers Chris.
I'd just like to understand (if there's something to understand)
Alex

Hi
Me too and I can quite clearly see and understand the way of your thinking.
IMHO from your photos they do indeed look quite different in colouration. If it wasn't for Thomas's remarks about finding both forms in a WC eggsac I would too tend to think otherwise.
I am not so sure if the markings are different though which I am lead to believe is an important thing when looking at identifing a Poecilotheria?
So a possible new species I would really not like to even hazzerd a guess either way (even if I could make a guess lol).

All the best
Chris

[Steevens DROGUET]

Growth depends on heat and food if I remember right. for an example:-
Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" males can be mature within a year yet I still have a juv that is almost 2 years old. Again concerning this species the vast majority of males I have seen have been quite small when compared to an example that I saw in the wild which was immensely larger. Adult male size is in my humble oppinion a bit of a none starter as it is so varieable in the same species let alone different species if they are so closely related to each other.

The problem must not be seeing like this, but like this :
All the males who looks like "lowland form" grown faster and come bigger than the "highland"

Not too sure what this tells us in regards to the two "forms"

Cheers
Chris

He told that before someone ask him if they are keep in the same condition. And before someone will say that if the look differents, it's because they don't eat the same thing...

[Steevens DROGUET]

So you suspect this post to be nothing more than lies?

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=11411&view=findpost&p=79928

Interesting.

In Alexandre BONACCORSO case he off course can not be accused of lieing at no point as he is clearly stateing his thoughts based in his posts.

I was refering to this part :

Hi Ray,

Thank you for your point of view.
Some (reliable) people have tried to "cross" these 2 so-called forms, and did never succeed. Do you have more informations about that ?

Cheers,
Alex

[Chris Sainsbury]

Hi

i have had roughly 80 lowland p subfusca slings and juvs from differant sacs from the same person

How many sacs?

3 from another from seperate sacs

3 spiders from 3 different sacs?

and not 1 has looked like the common highland form

Did you see all the spiderlings that were produced in these sacs?
If not how are you sure there were no other variants in them?
If the two forms can indeed be found in one sac in the wild, then can the breeding of the two same forms together go to produce all same form spidlings even if there was a mix at the start?

form i curantly have in germany 50% of 2 lowland sacs 1 of my own with my good friend paul towler containing 86n1's 10 eggs still to develop or duds ,3 more females ready to mate a communal group of 24 2.5inch juvs

No use to the descussion if you have not seen the results yet. Saying that though, at what stage of development can you see the differences?

they grow fastish males mature quite big my largest was 7.5 inch i have not seen a mature male of the highland form more than 5.5 inch mature all my mature males have been around 6.5-7.5inch leg span

Growth depends on heat and food if I remember right. for an example:-
Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" males can be mature within a year yet I still have a juv that is almost 2 years old. Again concerning this species the vast majority of males I have seen have been quite small when compared to an example that I saw in the wild which was immensely larger. Adult male size is in my humble oppinion a bit of a none starter as it is so varieable in the same species let alone different species if they are so closely related to each other.

easy to breed and have around 90-100 eggs in each sac i have yet to breed the common highland form that will happen later this year we will see if they will produce sacs in the same conditions as the lowland

so what are the differences in conditions that you are keeping them in at the moment? If they do produce fertile sacs the same what can you tell from this? If they don't what can you tell from this?

i have tried to keep my lowlands cool but they dont like it just hide away all together for the warmth

Sorry have to ask but do spiders huddle to keep warm?

i feed my spiders what ever they will take since in the wild they will do they same eat till there full not just 1 or 2 bugs every 10-14days gravid females get pinkies

Not too sure what this tells us in regards to the two "forms"

Cheers
Chris

[Alexandre BONACCORSO]

In Alexandre BONACCORSO case he off course can not be accused of lieing at no point as he is clearly stateing his thoughts based in his posts.

Cheers Chris.
I'd just like to understand (if there's something to understand)
Alex

[Simon Goldsborough]

i have had roughly 80 lowland p subfusca slings and juvs from differant sacs from the same person 3 from another from seperate sacs and not 1 has looked like the common highland form i curantly have in germany 50% of 2 lowland sacs 1 of my own with my good friend paul towler containing 86n1's 10 eggs still to develop or duds ,3 more females ready to mate a communal group of 24 2.5inch juvs they grow fastish males mature quite big my largest was 7.5 inch i have not seen a mature male of the highland form more than 5.5 inch mature all my mature males have been around 6.5-7.5inch leg span easy to breed and have around 90-100 eggs in each sac i have yet to breed the common highland form that will happen later this year we will see if they will produce sacs in the same conditions as the lowland , i have tried to keep my lowlands cool but they dont like it just hide away all together for the warmth , i feed my spiders what ever they will take since in the wild they will do they same eat till there full not just 1 or 2 bugs every 10-14days gravid females get pinkies

[Chris Sainsbury]

No. It's just a point of vew about two "forms" or not.
But so YOU suspect the answers of Alexandre BONACCORSO to be nothing more than lies ??

My post is based on what I quoted in my reply.
From the post that I quoted in my post, it is stateing that maybe he has mixed bloodline male lowland x highland in his breeding, yet in the post I linked to it clearly states that the two "colour" forms come from a WC female (is it just a presumtion on my part on taking that this WC female was unmated in captivty and went on to produce a fertile eggsac or is this not the case?).

In Alexandre BONACCORSO case he off course can not be accused of lieing at no point as he is clearly stateing his thoughts based in his posts.
But if these two forms can be found in the same eggsac from a WC female that produced a fertile eggsac in captivity, after not being mated in captivity then surely the arguement is void or?
One thing of interest though. After keeping these "two forms" pure what have been the results from the captive breeding? Have the offspring also all been either one or the other, or has there also been any sign of a mix?

Cheers
Chris

[Steevens DROGUET]

So you suspect this post to be nothing more than lies?

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=11411&view=findpost&p=79928

Interesting.

No. It's just a point of vew about two "forms" or not.
But so YOU suspect the answers of Alexandre BONACCORSO to be nothing more than lies ??

[Ray Gabriel]

Hi Chris,

I was thinking more along the lines of P subfusca and P uniformis.

But as of yet still no specimens and that is where the answer lies

Simon the one you gave me (IMHO) is not mature yet, maybe you are growing yours faster?

Ray

[Chris Sainsbury]

@ Ray
Just out of interest. If (and from what I can make out from all this it is a bigish IF) this "low" or "High" version of P. subfusca did turn out to be a new species, would it not be possible that it could infact be what was described as P. bara before it got synominized with P. subfusca? That being the case, wouldn't it have to be reinstated rather than get a new name?
Cheers
Chris

[Chris Sainsbury]

where is the pictuers of these 2 forms from the same egg sac maybe he has mixed bloodline male lowland x highland since there is a couple of people who have crossed the 2 forms so there is not going to be 2 forms for long ??

So you suspect this post to be nothing more than lies?

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=11411&view=findpost&p=79928

Interesting.